? S-02 & S-03

[s2ktx13]

I was wondering about getting some S-03's but was curious about the tire size. I know that the S-02's are actually 245 on the width from what I have been told. Does this hold the same on the S-03's?

[Strike]

You'll get much better responses here:

http://www.spam.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=56

edited by rstark:
again, promoting a site that violates Honda's licensing agreements, boy your siganture is going to get pretty big now. :laugh:

[Strike]

You know it's funny. If Honda really thought they were violating anything I'm sure Honda would let them know. That's ok though. I understand the real reason you guys don't allow them mentioned here.

[SondraS2k]

Strike, if you don't believe us, I urge you to contact Bruce Garfield, AHM legal counsel and the attorney handling the agreement between AHM and S2KCA. It was communication via Bruce from AHM corporate that led to the discontinuation of any of our sponsors carrying merchandise bearing Honda and S2000 logos.

Mr. Garfield also made mention of S2Ki and all of their sponsors using Honda's intellectual property without permission. I recall with certainty that there HAS been communication between Honda and S2Ki's admins about this, so you might want to doublecheck that before you make a statement like that. I don't doubt that you hadn't heard anything about this, as I wouldn't expect them to announce that S2Ki wasn't given the nod while S2KCA has a contract in the final stages of signatures...

[WestSideBilly]

Originally posted by s2ktx13
I was wondering about getting some S-03's but was curious about the tire size. I know that the S-02's are actually 245 on the width from what I have been told. Does this hold the same on the S-03's?

I've got S03PPs. My sizes are 205/55R16 and 225/50R16 - same indicated size as the stock S02s. They're not exactly the same size, but they're close. A combination of 225/50R16 and 245/45R16 is supposedly closer to stock sizes, but I believe this really only applies to non-Bridgestone tires.

The handling differences I've noticed are more due to the difference in tire, and not due to the size. Either combination will accomplish roughly the same thing. If you routinely are approaching the limits of your S02s, the wider combo would probably do better for you.

I'm not familiar with Austin's climate, but it seems that it would be fairly dry - Why not stick with OEM S02s? The only benefit of S03PPs is better wet traction.

[s2ktx13]

actually it has been raining more than usual here in ATX then usual. That is why I was looking into the S-03's. How much better do the S-03's have over the S-02's?

[Greg Stevens]

s2ktx13, I have the S-02 Pole Positions and since I have the Mugen wheels, at 17 inches, I had to get different tires. I got a good deal on them, but I was nervous about because I think the OEM S-02's are some of the best warm weather tires in existence. I LOVED those damn tires. That said, having done the Dragon with them at least once, maybe twice (can't recall), I was shcoked and amazed how well they performed there.

No, they are not S-03 PP's, but if the S-03's are as good (and I would expect them to be better), you would be happy with the S-03 PP. I don't think they compromise dry weather performance too much, if at all, for the wet weather capability of the tire.

I think they are a terrific all around tire. Will I get them again? Probably, but having gotten a deal on the first set, I can't say for sure yet. My rears are just about gone so I'll be making that decision soon. I can go with strictly a dry weather tire since it's not my daily driver. But I think the PP's are an excellent tire for all around driving...

HTH!

[WestSideBilly]

I'd concur with Greg's evaluation of the OEM S02s - they are awesome. If you don't drive in the rain much, they're tough to beat without going to a semi-slick tire.

As for S03PP vs S02s in the rain, well, there isn't even a comparison. I was never comfortable driving S02s in the rain, as the rear end tended to float at relatively moderate speeds if there was any standing water. Moist roads weren't too much of a problem. The S03PPs, however, I'm very confident of in the rain. I've driven over 100 MPH (shhhhhh ;) ) in the rain on my S03PPs, and they were still gripping well and I experienced no float. I drove the dragon about 2 months after it was re-paved in heavy rains and never had any grip problems, despite being on fairly worn rears. I've only broken the S03PPs a couple times in the wet, always intentionally. The compound and tread block design are excellent.

I'm going to pull some strings and try to get a set of Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 tires to compare. The GY guys put the F1 GS-D3 well above the S03PP in the wet (mounted to Vettes), but didn't have enough time of dry testing to compare.

[s2ktx13]

Thanks for all of the input from you all. Just wanted to get some good advise from people that have used both kinds of tires on the S2k.

[wong88]

I love my OEM SO2s, but alas need to get new tires and have been following the discussions with interest. Several have discussed OEM SO2s as if you can still purchase these, as opposed to the current SO2s. If you can get them, where? From the Honda dealer? I'd like to replace my tires with original type OEM SO2s, otherwise, I'll probably get 17" rims and the 245 45 17 on the rears.
For those of you that have bought new rims, did you find that tire stores (ie Americas Best, Discount Tire, Tire Rack etc.) will buy the original S2000 rims? If so, how much did you get for them?
Or do you think that we should keep original rims to be able to restore the S2000 to "classic" status one day?

Thanks for inputs,
Brian

[WestSideBilly]

If you get aftermarket wheels and don't need the money, I'd keep the OEM wheels laying around. If/when you sell the car, put the OEM wheels back on and sell the 17" aftermarkets on Ebay - you'll get a better return on aftermarket wheels than on OEM wheels, which have sold for $400-500 for the set.

[leon]

I have been checking out the posts under tires. While I only have 1600 miles on my new '03, I decided to check out the skins. The stock tires, the S-02's are a good, but not long wearing choice. I have read the comparo's with the S-03's and NOBODY has mentioned the Govt. wear rating of 220 vs the stock S-02's rating of 140. Since all posters agree the '03's are much better tires, it would seem to be 'icing on the cake' that they last longer, as well. I am not big on trying to second guess Honda, so I will probably stick to stock size tires and if I ever change wheels, will try to match offset as well. The difference of a few turns/mile will only change RPM a little and the speedo as much.................

[meat]

Changing the indicated tire size is keeping the tire the same size. This keeps the handling of the car from becoming very bad. A 225 in another tire is much more narrow than the OEM 225 S-02. Narrower tires in the rear can be a BAD thing.

[leon]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by meat
Changing the indicated tire size is keeping the tire the same size. This keeps the handling of the car from becoming very bad. A 225 in another tire is much more narrow than the OEM 225 S-02. Narrower tires in the rear can be a BAD thing. [/QUOTE



I'm not sure I understand. Most people would like more skin on the road, meaning wider. But most would also like the same tire height, meaning lower profile. To this end, just for example, go to Bridgestone site and look up your tire of choice....S-02 or S-03 would be a good start. Looking in the column 'revs/mile' I only compare tires that are close in this measure. For the S-03, the 225-50-16 is 837 rev/mile on 7" rims. The 245-45-17 is 833 rev/mile on 8" rims. The car would turn less than 20rpm less at 60mph with this tire. This is a good swap. Do the same on the front to preserve the original intent of the designers. Going proportionately wider on the front, as well would seem to preserve handling characteristics, but this is where I won't go. That is why, when the time comes, I will stick to stock size/rim.. I am not qualified to reengineer but could only go on what other people have done, and not screwed anything up...........leo.............

[meat]

My point was that people were going out and replacing the tires with a non-S2000 S-02 (there are 3 different S02's out there) in the same sizes (as indicated on the tire) as stock. What they found was the rears were much narrower than the OEM S02's and this created bad handling.

I agree that you want to keep your rev/mile the same, but you also want to keep the tire width the same as well.

[leon]

I now get your point and it it well taken. But, I think that the additional point is that to preserve balance, the fronts and rears must be somehow in proportion........I personally won't second guess Honda, especially since I'll bet it wasn't an easy decision to go to differential tire sizing f/r. That is the only thing that gives me pause. In cars with same size tires all-round, I don't worry too much about changes. I put 215 60's in place of 205 65's on my wifes sedan. I did so without even blinking. I was after a shorter sidewall for a little better response and traction in the rain.
I didn't look at the treadwidth spec of the 2 tires mentioned. But in general, is it true that a 245 will put more on the road than a 225? And we haven't even mentioned 'contact patch' yet, which will complicate things once again. I personally won't do anything to change the character of the handling without VERY careful investigation. This car is engineered to the hilt and I simply won't mess with success.
Skinny rears sounds suicidal. You'd probably be better off with some Blizzak snow tires!

Thanks for your prompt reply...........leo...........

[leon]

I have been thinking about the previous post and reply by other users. I just went out and measured the treadwidth of my stock tires. Bridgestone calls for 8.5" on 7.5" rims. I couldn't get much over 8.2 or so, even fudging. I urge everyone wishing to preserve both front/rear treadwidth ratio and overall height to check manufacturers specs. I have been to Yokohama, Bridgestone, Michelin and Toyo sites. All have lists of tire specs. Check it out, and you will see differences between dimensions. So far, the S-03's, at least for the rears, seem a good match. Others may be similar. 10-10's drivers need to pay close attention to this, as a previous post said.
A reply to my post said that Bridgestone made 3 different versions of the S-02? I sure would like to see more information on this........................

[meat]

There is a Honda S-02, a Porsche S-02 and a standard S-02 from what I remember. The size of the tires are different as well as the tread pattern.

[leon]

100%::
For S-02's only:: Currently Bridgestone site lists two tires EACH in 205/55-16 and 225/50-16. The Honda tire is 'W' rated and the Boxster is 'Z' rated. They are dimensionally a little different! Enough so to make me track this down further. I'm glad I don't actually NEED tires right this minute, 'cause this'd drive me nuts..................
I don't doubt for an instant that there is a 3rd variant out there.

[Rowland]

leon,
I went nuts the first time buying tires for my car. It is good that you are taking time to research your options now. In the end you taken in the advise from the board and compare some other info that is available and you go for it. Other wise you will go crazy.

Enjoy your car and happy driving.

[desmo4]

When I canged to 17" wheels I wasn't sure what tires to get.
Unfornunately S02 Pole Positions are not made anymore because they were the best tires I ever drove on driy or wet I made a difficult choice between Toyo Proxis T1 S and S03 PP's. I decided to try the Toyo's and I am not the least dissapointed. The S02 PP only started sliding when the rears were just about slicks. The Toyo's being new can not be compared to them. But at this point the balance of the car feels great and the dry and wet performance is as good as with the Brdgestones. Only time and miles will tell.

Jonathan