VSA (!) and Brake are all on

[RavynX]

The past week or two the VSA, ( ! ), and the Brake light have all turned on... intermittently. Some days I will start the S and they will be off and will turn on if I hit a bump or just randomly. Other days they will just be on from the start. The Brake light will more frequently turn on/off during a drive. I read a thread on another forum and someone talked about reseating the brake pads which I tried last night but no luck.

Has anyone experienced this before? Do I need a different code reader than ODBII to read the VSA codes?

Model Year 2006 with 33k miles.

[geras003]

It might sound stupid but .... Did you check the brake fluid level in the master cylinder?

[RavynX]

It might sound stupid but .... Did you check the brake fluid level in the master cylinder?

Not stupid at all. Brake fluid is at the proper level.

[repiv]

Not stupid at all. Brake fluid is at the proper level.
But the level float might be sticking or the sensor wiring harness may be loose of badly connected.
Also check the ebrake switch in the center console.
I don't have VSA, but I think it's associated with brake function, thus, the above 2 items need to be checked.

[RavynX]

But the level float might be sticking or the sensor wiring harness may be loose of badly connected.
Also check the ebrake switch in the center console.
I don't have VSA, but I think it's associated with brake function, thus, the above 2 items need to be checked.

Brake Fluid Level Float: Does not appear to be stuck. It floats freely.
Sensor Wiring Harness: Seemed to be connected fine. Disconnected and Reconnected to be safe.
E-Brake Switch: When the e-brake is down, I cannot activate the soft top. When the e-brake is up, I can activate the soft top. Seems to be working fine.

[repiv]

Brake Fluid Level Float: Does not appear to be stuck. It floats freely.
Sensor Wiring Harness: Seemed to be connected fine. Disconnected and Reconnected to be safe.
E-Brake Switch: When the e-brake is down, I cannot activate the soft top. When the e-brake is up, I can activate the soft top. Seems to be working fine.
These are the only 2 switches that would affect the light on the dash and the one on the handbrake is the one that would defeat the soft top operation. One of these switches could be acting up.
In your original post .........................
( ! ), and the Brake light
Aren't these 2 the same? Or do you actually have 2 separate lights? I'm trying to determine if your year of car has more than the switches that I've already noted.

[RavynX]

These are the only 2 switches that would affect the light on the dash and the one on the handbrake is the one that would defeat the soft top operation. One of these switches could be acting up.
In your original post .........................

( ! ), and the Brake light

Aren't these 2 the same? Or do you actually have 2 separate lights? I'm trying to determine if your year of car has more than the switches that I've already noted.

( ! ) Light: Indicates that VSA has been disabled (The VSA is disabled by holding the switch behind the steering wheel on the dash to the left of the A/C / Heat Fan Control Lever for 2-3 seconds. This indicator is turned off every time the vehicle starts up meaning VSA is always turned on when you start the vehicle.

VSA light indicates something may be wrong with the VSA system. This indicator is not on when you disable VSA using the switch.

"Brake" light: Indicates that the e-brake has been pulled up to engage the emergency brake system.

[repiv]

( ! ) Light: Indicates that VSA has been disabled
I see. The Canadian AP1 (without VSA) uses (!) for brake, where your car uses "BRAKE". Sorry for the confusion. "BRAKE" would also indicate low fluid or some other problem with the braking system, as does my (!).
Your VSA will utilize the ABS "rings" on each wheel hub to determine its need to intervene. However, if one of these rings were damaged or have debris in the teeth, your ABS light would also come on. In your case, you are likely right that there is something going on with the VSA, but this still doesn't eliminate the braking system just yet.
I believe an '06 has DBW and hence, you will require an OBD II CAN reader, but I still can't tell you if the VSA codes are readable with the scanner. You may have to pay the dealer to see if there are any codes.
One thing you could try before you go to the dealer and that is to try a system reset by disconnecting the battery negative for a few minutes. Have your radio code on hand. If this doesn't correct it, then the dealer is your next step (unless you have a CAN OBD II to try first).

[RavynX]

Photo is just for clarification. I took it a couple of minutes ago and photoshopped the text in. I will try disconnecting the battery and seeing if that clears anything.

http://www.ravynx.net/s2k/laguna/pics/repair/misc/vsaProblem.jpg

[geras003]

The only time I had VSA light on and "brake" light blinikng when I was very low on brake fluid.. That was after install of SS lines and not doing good job with brakes bleeding.. After fluid was added, both indicators went away. First "brake" one, then with couple restarts "VSA". I would bet something is somehow "weird" with the brakes - that gives a signal to VSA...

[geras003]

Can't see picture..

[repiv]

The only time I had VSA light on and "brake" light blinikng when I was very low on brake fluid.. That was after install of SS lines and not doing good job with brakes bleeding.. After fluid was added, both indicators went away. First "brake" one, then with couple restarts "VSA". I would bet something is somehow "weird" with the brakes - that gives a signal to VSA...
I kinda thought this was the case. It's still possible that the fluid level is not being detected properly in the OP's case. If the level is in fact, correct, it's possible the level sensor is not seeing it for whatever reason. The little screen in the reservoir can only be put in in one direction (notice how it's slanted?). If it is put in backwards, this could impede the float when in place. Just an after thought.

[repiv]

Photo is just for clarification. I took it a couple of minutes ago and photoshopped the text in. I will try disconnecting the battery and seeing if that clears anything.

http://www.ravynx.net/s2k/laguna/pics/repair/misc/vsaProblems.jpg

What's it a picture of? :think: Can't see it. [X]

[RavynX]

The only time I had VSA light on and "brake" light blinikng when I was very low on brake fluid.. That was after install of SS lines and not doing good job with brakes bleeding.. After fluid was added, both indicators went away. First "brake" one, then with couple restarts "VSA". I would bet something is somehow "weird" with the brakes - that gives a signal to VSA...

Direct link to picture (you might need to refresh, Use CTRL-F5 to reload without using your browser's cache): http://www.ravynx.net/s2k/laguna/pics/repair/misc/vsaProblem.jpg

I disconnected the battery for a couple of minutes and reconnected it. The check engine light went away, I had to reenter my radio code, but the VSA, ( ! ), and BRAKE were all still on.

[repiv]

Direct link to picture (you might need to refresh, Use CTRL-F5 to reload without using your browser's cache): http://www.ravynx.net/s2k/laguna/pics/repair/misc/vsaIssue.jpg

I disconnected the battery for a couple of minutes and reconnected it. The check engine light went away, I had to reenter my radio code, but the VSA, ( ! ), and BRAKE were all still on.
Nope, can't see it. You can now load pics onto this forum's album.

Bummer about the reset. Double check the master brake cylinder for level, float action, connection (pins OK?) and possible sensor fault.

[RavynX]

It's ATE Super Blue fluid if you're wondering about the blue color. The fluid level is where that rib/ridge is along the outside of the reservoir.

http://ravynx.net/s2k/laguna/pics/repair/misc/reservoir_right.jpg

http://ravynx.net/s2k/laguna/pics/repair/misc/reservoir_top_open3.jpg

http://ravynx.net/s2k/laguna/pics/repair/misc/reservoir_open_top.jpg

http://ravynx.net/s2k/laguna/pics/repair/misc/reservoir_open_top2.jpg

[geras003]

I would say add more fluid - this is pretty low... :twocents:

[RavynX]

It might cause a problem even if it's between Min and Max? I'll get some more Super Blue tomorrow and fill it near or just above the halfway mark just to be sure.

The pictures should be fixed now, I had a Photoshop issue with the first image. It should be viewable now.

Edit: I found some extra fluid and topped it off. Turned the car on and the lights are off. I will drive it tomorrow and post on here to let you guys know.

[geras003]

I don't know 100%... It shouldn't when car is sitting still, but I can see it happening in case of hard cornering.
I would personally be concerned to have that low of the level... Was the fluid at this level when you switch to SuperBlue? If you were at MAX when you did the fluid change - I would check the brake pads - cause they might be running pretty low..

[geras003]

Great!:thumbup:

It might cause a problem even if it's between Min and Max? I'll get some more Super Blue tomorrow and fill it near or just above the halfway mark just to be sure.

The pictures should be fixed now, I had a Photoshop issue with the first image. It should be viewable now.

Edit: I found some extra fluid and topped it off. Turned the car on and the lights are off. I will drive it tomorrow and post on here to let you guys know.

[RavynX]

http://ravynx.net/s2k/laguna/pics/repair/misc/reservoir_filled_right.jpg

http://ravynx.net/s2k/laguna/pics/repair/misc/resovoir_filled_top.jpg

[repiv]

Those pictures tell me that the level is on the low side. I don't give much credence to that "low" mark. I would recommend keeping the level at or just slightly below the "full" mark (hot weather expansion). On a car like the S, the slosh factor alone can cause a temperamental float sensor to go off. Since you've topped it up and have seen the light go off, I'm going to predict that the light will stay off until the level drops again. If it drops again, then you have to ask why it's changing. I think you have just found your problem. :thumbup: Both Geras and myself have suspected fluid level early on.

[RavynX]

I don't know 100%... It shouldn't when car is sitting still, but I can see it happening in case of hard cornering.
I would personally be concerned to have that low of the level... Was the fluid at this level when you switch to SuperBlue? If you were at MAX when you did the fluid change - I would check the brake pads - cause they might be running pretty low..

It might have been when I used the brand new track pads when I tracked it two months ago. I put the braided lines and flushed the brake system at the same time. After the event I went back to my stock pads which had more miles on them. I can't remember if I topped off my fluid then but my guess would be I probably didn't. Since the stock pad's thickness was smaller compared to the brand new track pads, more fluid had to get pushed into the system to accomodate. They must have been thick enough to last a month before throwing the lights. It's not 100% verified/fixed yet as I have yet to go test drive it tomorrow when I head out to work.

I shall keep the brake fluid level below but close to Max from now on. I guess we need to define what correct level is next time around as we had different views on what correct levels were.

Thanks again for the help fellas. :thumbup: :D

[RavynX]

Drove it 5 miles to work this morning and still no lights. Thanks again geras and xviper. :thumbup: :martini2:

[repiv]

Great to hear. I hope this does it. Sometimes, it's the simplest solution that resolves the problem.

[geras003]

Great! I would still check the pads though.. Especially if you were at "MAX" with brand new track pads.. Relative thicknesses OEM vs track pads are approximately the same!

I use brake fluid level as a decent indicator of my pads now since I started tracking the car...

[RavynX]

Great! I would still check the pads though.. Especially if you were at "MAX" with brand new track pads.. Relative thicknesses OEM vs track pads are approximately the same!

I use brake fluid level as a decent indicator of my pads now since I started tracking the car...

Oh brake pads I know 100% sure are good as I reseated them a couple days ago when I started debugging the VSA stuff. They still have that center-line groove on the front pads. I'd say at least 1 centimeter of pad still there so there's plenty. Thanks though! :thumbup: I hope there isn't a leak in the system if the brake fluid level is any indication. I'll keep a close eye on it.