Clutch Slave Cylinder Issue

[RavynX]

The clutch has been a little creaky lately so I thought I would lube the clutch slave cylinder piston as shown here... http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=370792

I had the piston out and was cleaning and greasing it back up out from under to car only to go back and find that the spring contraption in the clutch slave cylinder had popped loose and spilled fluid on the ground. I put the spring back in and put everything else back together and put the slave cylinder back on and since fluid had spilled out I knew I had to bleed the system to get the air out.

I followed this guide on bleeding the clutch: http://forums.s2kca.com/showthread.php?t=12154

I had a friend help me bleed the clutch and I thought we were finished when I saw fresh fluid exiting the bleeder valve but the engagement point for the clutch is now all the way at the bottom instead of at the top. The clutch engages the instant I start to release the clutch pedal from the floor and grabs only a couple inches up leaving the rest for pedal-play room.

I know this isn't right and I was wondering if there's an easier way to get air out of the slave cylinder other than just bleeding it till it's all out. I figured it might be unwise to unbolt it again, fill the cylinder with fluid and try and install it again.

Thoughts?

[mlc]

Can you explain the "spring contraption" are you talking about the piston that slides in and out of the slave cylinder? If you look at picture two in the DIY can you tell us which part it is.

When I did this I had to crack the bleeder valve to get it to go back in. I bled the system but only a couple of times. Repiv said that it needs to be done 10 to 12 times to get the air out of the system. Make sure you fill the resivour (sp) after 3 times max. It doesn't hold very much fluid and you can pull air into it. Lastly did you pump the pedal four or five times after you were done like the DIY said that is very important.

Kevin

[RavynX]

Can you explain the "spring contraption" are you talking about the piston that slides in and out of the slave cylinder? If you look at picture two in the DIY can you tell us which part it is.

When I did this I had to crack the bleeder valve to get it to go back in. I bled the system but only a couple of times. Repiv said that it needs to be done 10 to 12 times to get the air out of the system. Make sure you fill the resivour (sp) after 3 times max. It doesn't hold very much fluid and you can pull air into it. Lastly did you pump the pedal four or five times after you were done like the DIY said that is very important.

Kevin

Sure. In this photo http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?act=module&module=gallery&cmd=viewimage&img=302990&md=1 in the How-To you see the slave cylinder dismounted and hanging. On the right hand side in that photo you see this black cylinder piece sticking out. That piece can actually slide out of the housing and it has a spring attached to it. That chamber is filled with fluid with a pin-sized hole at the back where fluid is pushed through. The piston (metal rod that gets polished in the tutorial) sits in the "bowl" area on that black cylinder piece just sticking out of the housing.

My friend and I pumped the system a good 20 times. There were times where it would be more than 5 pumps before filling the reservoir so air might have gotten back in. When I closed the bleeder valve to finish it took me a good 2-3 minutes of pumping the break pedal to get it to spring back on its own instead of sticking to the floor board.

[mlc]

To be honest Chris I did not take the slave cylinder apart so I cant really help. I am sure Dave will have much better answers then I. It does sound like there is still air in the system though.

Good luck.

Kevin

[RavynX]

To be honest Chris I did not take the slave cylinder apart so I cant really help. I am sure Dave will have much better answers then I. It does sound like there is still air in the system though.

Good luck.

Kevin

Thanks for the help though. When you did yours did the end cap that the piston sits in move at all on you?

[mlc]

It was really hard to move back in. Like I said I had to open the bleeder valve to get it back into postion. I lost a good amount of fluid to get it back together that is why I had to bleed the system afterwards.

Kevin

[desmo4]

The entire issue would be much easier if Honda had put a bleeder at the clutch master cylinder. That may be my next addition.

Jonathan

[repiv]

There were times where it would be more than 5 pumps before filling the reservoir so air might have gotten back in. When I closed the bleeder valve to finish it took me a good 2-3 minutes of pumping the break pedal to get it to spring back on its own instead of sticking to the floor board.
This may be way too many. You can easily suck air into the master piston and still see fluid covering the bottom hole. Fluid can get sucked in via a sort of vortex affect without drawing in the bit of fluid remaining at the bottom. By your description, you've brought a bunch of air into the system that must now be bled out.
When you say "pumping", you're not actually meaning you push down and wait for the pedal to come back up on its own, are you? The clutch pedal is NOT like the brake pedal. When bleeding the clutch, the pedal must be manually pulled back up to the top when the bleeder is closed. It's not supposed to spring back on it's own until the whole system is bled completely and "loaded". During a bleed, the pedal is not being resisted by the pressure plate fingers. It comes back on its own when in operation because the PP pushes it back up.

PS. In my Clutch Bleed "How To", I outlined 2 pedal push / lift cycles, then checking the fluid level and topping up if necessary. I stated this to be on the safe side just in case readers tried to keep going until the fluid was right at the bottom. You did more than 5.

[RavynX]

This may be way too many. You can easily suck air into the master piston and still see fluid covering the bottom hole. Fluid can get sucked in via a sort of vortex affect without drawing in the bit of fluid remaining at the bottom. By your description, you've brought a bunch of air into the system that must now be bled out.
When you say "pumping", you're not actually meaning you push down and wait for the pedal to come back up on its own, are you? The clutch pedal is NOT like the brake pedal. When bleeding the clutch, the pedal must be manually pulled back up to the top when the bleeder is closed. It's not supposed to spring back on it's own until the whole system is bled completely and "loaded". During a bleed, the pedal is not being resisted by the pressure plate fingers. It comes back on its own when in operation because the PP pushes it back up.

I guess "pumps" is a bad terminology; I was referring more to 5 cycles of pumping fluid out via the instructions in your write up. Here are the steps we took...

Open Clutch Fluid Reservoir Cap

1. Turn clutch bleeder valve 1/4-turn to open
2. Press Clutch Pedal to floor
3. Close clutch bleeder valve
4. Pull Clutch Pedal up from the floor

Repeat steps 1-4

Tighten the bleeder valve to just snug
Top off fluid between Min and Max & Close the reservoir cap
Pump clutch pedal several times


We will re-bleed the clutch system and check the fluid reservoir every 2-3 cycles this time around. Thanks. I'm just hoping to get the air out of the clutch slave cylinder as well since it was emptied when working on the piston.

[repiv]

Pump clutch pedal several times
I trust you are doing this as per the highlighted portion of my How To. You don't pump the pedal to the floor during this stage, only the first couple of inches. This ensures that the master cylinder is completely filled and the master piston is "set". I only mention this so as to cover as many possible places for error as I can think of. The most likely source of your woes is air in the system.

[RavynX]

I trust you are doing this as per the highlighted portion of my How To. You don't pump the pedal to the floor during this stage, only the first couple of inches. This ensures that the master cylinder is completely filled and the master piston is "set". I only mention this so as to cover as many possible places for error as I can think of. The most likely source of your woes is air in the system.

Then I followed that incorrectly as it was at the bottom area instead of the top; my mistake. :facepalm: Thank you for pointing that out. Just off my game lately I guess. :sad:

[RavynX]

Ah crud, I thought I replied to this after we re-bled the system. We did 3 cycles of pumping fluid out and then refilled the reservoir; repeated that process until the clutch system was flushed clean. No more air in the system and the clutch pedal feels brand new. Thanks again! :thumbup: :martini2:

[repiv]

Ah crud, I thought I replied to this after we re-bled the system. We did 3 cycles of pumping fluid out and then refilled the reservoir; repeated that process until the clutch system was flushed clean. No more air in the system and the clutch pedal feels brand new. Thanks again! :thumbup: :martini2:
Ta-Da!!!! :thumbup: