Changed clutch master.and trans fluid.feels worse then before

[border919]

I changed my trans fluid,brake fluid(clutch master cylinder),and oil.my exhaust now smokes after i shut the engine off.I can also feel more notchiness when I shift to second.there's also the sane amount of play in the clutch pedal at the top.will adjusting the piston rod that goes into the CMC make it more stiff?I just got this car and I'm used to driving swapped cars,so I don't know what the clutch is supposed to feel like .My slave cylinder isn't leaking either.I think I'm just paranoid about having a nice car and bot taking care of it.my s2k has all the common problems.

[repiv]

Details are always important when you ask questions. Answers can only be wild guesses when information is lacking.

What trans fluid did you use and how much did you put in there? The type and brand of tranny fluid is critical to how the shifting feels on this car. If you jacked up the car oddly, you may not have gotten enough fluid in or you got way too much fluid in. Honda MTF is generally the fluid of choice for this car, but Amsoil and GMSMFM has also been used extensively.

What kind of brake fluid did you put in there and what procedure did you use to do the flush and bleed? DOT 3 or DOT 4 is required for this car. If you put in a silicone brake fluid, BAD NEWS. Also, if you didn't follow procedure when changing the fluid, this can affect the pedal play tremendously. You can only do 3 to 4 pump cycles before topping up the reservoir. If you go much beyond this, you will have sucked in air and not even notice it since the fluid level can migrate back up above the hole in the master clutch cylinder by the time you go take a look. Also, if you didn't top up, cap the reservoir and pump the pedal the top inch or two several times to prime the system, you will get a very odd feeling clutch. Adjustment of the pedal rod is ONLY to compensate for a wearing clutch friction material or for air in the system or a poor bleed procedure. That rod adjustment is NOT generally needed or advised. It's a Band-aide measure when something else is not right.

What kind of oil did you put in the engine and how much? Did you spill oil when you filled it? After you shut off the engine, nothing else is happening internally except for the possibility that you spilled oil onto the exhaust manifold and that oil is burning off. If you severely overfilled the oil in the crankcase, it should be smoking most of the time while the engine is running.

[border919]

I used honda mtf.mobil 1 synthetic,(may be the first time it had synthetic.I used the system for bleeding it in the how to section.the smoke is coming out of the tail pipe.

[repiv]

I used honda mtf.mobil 1 synthetic,(may be the first time it had synthetic.I used the system for bleeding it in the how to section.the smoke is coming out of the tail pipe.

If it's coming out of the tail pipe, you check the oil level in the crankcase. It might be overfilled. Also, some S2000 owners have remarked that Mobil 1 causes their engines to consume more oil however, I've never had a problem with it and neither has many, many other owners. It's just a few cases where this happens.
As for the clutch pedal free play, I would still suggest that something went wrong with the bleed. Beyond that, there's still some details that have yet to be revealed.

[Billman250]

As far as the clutch pedal...I can guarantee you have air in the slave. You can bleed till you're blue it won't get all the air out.

All you need to do is reach a screwdriver inside the slave boot, and pump the clutch fork towards the rear of the car. Go all the way back till the fork stops, then repeat two more times. The air will go out the top of the master.

Then try your clutch pedal :)

[mlc]

As far as the clutch pedal...I can guarantee you have air in the slave. You can bleed till you're blue it won't get all the air out.

All you need to do is reach a screwdriver inside the slave boot, and pump the clutch fork towards the rear of the car. Go all the way back till the fork stops, then repeat two more times. The air will go out the top of the master.

Then try your clutch pedal :)

Hello Billman,

Can you please explain this a little better or possibly a pic. I have just replaced the MC and cleaned up the shaft on the slave cylinder and I am just not sure I got all of the air out of the system.

Thanks.
Kevin

[tr8al]

My 2 cents...speed bleeders are great and have always had excellent performance with Castrol
GTX for track, even at threshold braking.

As far as the clutch pedal...I can guarantee you have air in the slave. You can bleed till you're blue it won't get all the air out.

All you need to do is reach a screwdriver inside the slave boot, and pump the clutch fork towards the rear of the car. Go all the way back till the fork stops, then repeat two more times. The air will go out the top of the master.

Then try your clutch pedal :)

[repiv]

My 2 cents...speed bleeders are great and have always had excellent performance with Castrol
GTX for track, even at threshold braking.
He's referring to the clutch. I'm not so sure a speedbleeder would work on the clutch slave cylinder. There may not be enough resistance on the release fork for a speedbleeder to work.

[tr8al]

S/B work great on the brakes..I can't imagine that the pressure plate spring strength would not overcome the small check valve spring. I'm planning to put one in.

PS When I put in my SS brake hoses I did my 1st bleed with all S/B open with clear tubing (short stroke pumping)...got 99% of the air out... then did final one by one. Took no time for one person.

PPS Hand vacuum pumps are the easiest if you don't have speed bleeders.

My 2 cents...speed bleeders are great and have always had excellent performance with Castrol
GTX for track, even at threshold braking.

[desmo4]

yep Speed Bleeders all around. Wouldn't fool around with any other method. They even supply plastic bags to catch the fluid. No spills no mess. The easiest method for brake or clutch bleeding.

Jonathan

[border919]

i tried to pumpthe cylinder toward the rear of the vehicle, but it didnt work too well. i did however see an air bubble at the top of the clutch master cylinder.

[desmo4]

He's referring to the clutch. I'm not so sure a speedbleeder would work on the clutch slave cylinder. There may not be enough resistance on the release fork for a speedbleeder to work.

Dave, Speed Bleeders work anywhere. I have them on the brakes and clutch. I recently changed the front calipers. The service manual tells you to bleed the drivers side first. I changed the drivers side first. I put a few drops of fluid in the caliper and a new speed bleeder. I installed the caliper and opened the speed bleeder. Pumped the brakes 2 times and was done. Did the same on the right side and pedal was hard as a rock. Can't beat Speed Bleeders. The clutch is the same. Drained the master cylinder with a syringe and filled it up. Opened speed bleeder pumped clutch 3 times refilled and repeated twice more. Clutch fluid changed.

Jonathan

[border919]

i got the car with the airbox removed,however the stock air filter and tube are on the car.could this explain the lag i feel on take offs?i push the gas and let out the clutch and it feel like its almost bogging down or cant move.my front right brake also feels like its dragging could this maybe be the problem?thanks sorry for any dumb remarks on my part in the past xviper,I will try to act in a more mature manner.

[repiv]

i got the car with the airbox removed,however the stock air filter and tube are on the car.could this explain the lag i feel on take offs?i push the gas and let out the clutch and it feel like its almost bogging down or cant move.my front right brake also feels like its dragging could this maybe be the problem?thanks sorry for any dumb remarks on my part in the past xviper,I will try to act in a more mature manner.
Apology accepted.
Having no airbox aggravates the ingestion of hot air. Certainly, you can draw air in more efficiently but this "short ram" effect is completely negated by sucking in air that has been heated up to engine bay temps, which can be as hot as 160*F. It has been guesstimated that for every 3 degrees C of increase of air temp, an engine will lose 1 hp. 160*F is about 70*C. If ambient temp is 25*C, the engine can be losing as much as 15 hp. What this does is shift the HP and torque curve to the right of graph. This then requires you to use higher rpm to get to that same power you had at the lower temps. When you try to get 3000 lbs of car moving, it takes a certain amount of HP and torque. If you don't have that power at the rpm you're used to, then you bog. The answer is to increase the revs or decrease the temp of the air the engine sucks in.
The stock intake tube and filter is a great "performance" intake. Without the airbox, you turn it into a hot air intake. Sounds good and even revs good once you get going, but the engine is still down on power.

[desmo4]

The air box has several functions. One, it serves as a tuned cavity so the air goes into the engine a little less turbulently. Two, it prevents hot air from being sucked into the engine. And this will certainly cause bogging especially if you live a warm climate. The new part will be expensive but there are plenty of FS posts both here and S2000.com where you could get a replacement for a reasonable price or just get a Mugen airbox.

Jonathan

[border919]

thanks,it feels like you guys hit the nail on the head.I have to keep the rpms up to get any good amount of power.other than that it just bogs.