Bypass Control Valve Question.

[spoons2k09]

Ok so I work for Honda and im an apprentice tech right now but I had a couple of questions i just wanted to clear up because the other master techs around the shop are telling me things and from what I have read on this site they dont seem 100 percent correct about these s2k related issues.

So my first question is

I have a AEM Cold Air Intake and I still have my Bypass Control Valve hooked up like it should by going into my Intake. But I had some weird noises coming from the little Breather that is on the Control Valve we thought it was a Tensioner pulley but it turned out not being that. When I take the Breather off it makes no weird noise but when I put it on it sounds weird the Breather is prob plugged is why but I cant justify buying a new one because they dont sell them individually and it cost $98 for a new bypass control valve. Is having no breather on the end going to cause me problems in future or is it fine?

My second question is the master tech at work keeps giving me crap about my car having a ticking noise when you cant even hear a ticking noise really, I have read on this site that this tiny amount of noise that is barely noticable but kinda sounds like a ticking noise is the Injectors on some s2k's they just make that noise.

And my third question is on my Cold Air Intake how hard is it to hydrolock with it all the techs are giving me **** telling me I need to get rid of it and grab a different intake but I highly doubt that hydrolocking is very possible unless a Hurricane hit and I drove through 2 feet of water.

Anyways Im just looking for a little bit of answers if anyone knows anything

[repiv]

When you say "Bypass Control Valve", are you talking about this thing that I'm holding? ........................................

http://inlinethumb46.webshots.com/14381/2179984910025981935S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2179984910025981935DpxJJF)

I'm a little confused when you say you've got it "going into your intake" (you're referring to your AEM intake, right?). The thing is, neither of the hoses that plug into that valve goes into the AEM intake at all. If you follow those hoses, one goes into the secondary air valve assembly near the firewall and the other goes into the intake manifold at the back near the intake air temp sensor. The addition of an AEM CAI doesn't alter the routing of the secondary air injection vacuum hoses at all. They stay the same, except that you replaced them with longer ones. They come and go to the exact same places as they did before. The only difference is the front breather hose and the air hose to the air pump now goes into the AEM intake pipe instead of the OEM intake pipe.
You must have faith that your secondary air injection system is working correctly and any noise it may or may not make is normal. If something is not right, this system is heavily monitored and it will throw a CEL and give you the secondary air injection code. You cannot do without any part of this system. It's part of the emission controls. Having a missing part or a broken part or even the hoses mixed up will throw a CEL. If you have no CEL, then the sounds you hear are normal. Unplugging a hose and hearing something different is not a sign that something is wrong or not wrong. It takes a fair bit of time for the sensors to pick up on something being wrong because this system depends on vacuum in certain places and pressure in others and it also depends on driving cycles.

Ticking noises that you may or may not hear and that your co-workers may or may not hear is something that is nearly impossible to comment on over the internet. The S2000 engine makes lots of noises normally. The valves tick normally to some extent. The injectors tick to some extent. The whole engine as it heats up and cools down will tick from expansion and contraction. If they hear the ticking, challenge them to find it. You guys are all mechanics and you should have access to a mechanic's stethoscope. Get one and tell them to use it to find the ticking. It's a chore for a non-mechanic to find, but for a mechanic, this should be child's play. Things that tick would be the valves. Check all 16 positions on the valve cover and see if any of them tick differently. If they all tick the same, it's normal. Same goes for the injectors. An oddball one will stand out. They should all tick.
If you have a ticking timing chain tensioner, this is not normal. If the serpentine belt tensioner ticks, this is not normal. If the Idle Air Control solenoid ticks, this is not normal.

There's no need to get rid of your CAI, however, they are correct on some points. CAIs like what you have, have an elbow just after the air filter. This bend points slightly upwards and when it rains, that elbow traps a good amount of water. It has been proven on this car that as little as 50cc to 100cc in that elbow will hydrolock the engine on a first start after the water has collected. "Driving" in heavy rainfall is not the big problem. It's "parking" in a heavy rainfall that IS. There is a tiny access hole on the hood rain gutter where all the water fall down. This hole is directly above the filter of such an intake. If you park the car in a hard rain, the elbow will fill up with water. The next time you start the engine, that water will get sucked up rapidly due to the immediately high idle rpm. Your engine will be toast. People with such intakes are encouraged to plug that hole and to make some sort of "umbrella" to shield the filter from falling water. Additionally, you can't drive into a pool of water deep enough to nearly completely submerge the filter. Chances are, there won't be enough engine vacuum to pull that much water up and the engine will stall but if you rev it at the right moment, it will. Then it's toast again. You don't need two feet of water, perhaps only a foot. That filter sits very low in the bumper. Of course, if you bought the AEM by-pass valve, you won't have this problem, but then, you would have turned your cold air intake into a hot air intake.

[spoons2k09]

Great Info Repiv, so just to clarify some points.

Yes the picture you posted is what I am talking about its that black circular filter on the top. The techs at work say that it probobly wont hurt anything to have that piece not on but that is what I am asking you should i replace the part for $98 or just leave the little piece off we have 4 s2k's at the dealership none of them make the noise mine makes with the piece attached.

Also on the CAI I understand what you are saying and I was just thinking of buying the AEM by-pass valve but how does that make the intake a hot air intake is my question?

And yes I understand the ticking noise is too hard to tell over the internet its something I am not going to worry about unless it gets louder. I have taken a Stethoscope to it and checked around but had not found anything and other techs could care less to be honest. (1 in particular Master Tech pisses me off because he was telling my to drop oil pan and check bearing and I am just not doing that with 59k on a motor I feel that is stupid)

anyways anymore info would help

[spoons2k09]

I guess my other question for CAI is how do I do the umbrella trick is there a DIY that I can follow.

[repiv]

First, here is the "How To" on making an umbrella for your intake:
http://forums.s2kca.com/showthread.php?t=29387&highlight=umbrella

It seems to me that most Honda techs, even "master" techs know SQUAT about an S2000. They think they're dealing with Civics and Accords. Like I tried to tell you already, you CANNOT just leave that valve off. It will throw a P0411 CEL code. If you don't mind seeing the light on, then it doesn't matter. If you are not throwing the code now, don't worry about the noise and don't compare it to other S2000s on your lot. Are they newer S2000s? What year is your S2000? Did you know that the newer DBW S2000s don't have a secondary air injection system? Maybe that's why they don't make any noise. If something's wrong, your ECU will tell you. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Your "techs at work" should have known this. After all, aren't they the "experts"? I mean, most guys on this forum know this and we aren't even master techs. IMO, you had best never disclose which dealership you work at because S2000 owners should avoid it like the plague. They seem to know very little and care very little about S2000s. Ask them what they would use for fluid to service the diff on an S2000. If they have to look it up first, they fail. From the sounds of it, personally, I would not let any of them work on my car.

The AEM by-pass valve is installed on the vertical part of the pipe going to the throttle body. It opens anytime there is a restriction (like if water is in the elbow). However, any kind of restriction like when the filter gets a bit dirty or if you raise manifold vacuum as when you rev it, will draw air in via the by-pass valve. Guess where the by-pass valve gets it's air from? ---- From the HOT air that comes through the radiator. If you get the by-pass valve, you've just wasted your money getting the CAI.

If you've got a serious abnormal tick, you will have found it with the stethoscope. Unless the car was once turboed or S/C'd and was abused, there is no reason to suspect that a main bearing is on the way out. The bottom end on the F series motor is nearly bulletproof, not unlike the last Supra motors. If you've checked all the things that I previously listed and you're happy that it's none of those, then you should be OK. And you do know about the timing chain tensioner phenomenon, right? It's become fairly common the past couple of years now that these cars are beginning to age. And you know about the idle air control solenoid, right? That too, is a known issue, though quite rare. And you know about sunken and cracked valve spring retainers? If you have a few of these, you'll get an abnormal noise but then, your stethoscope would have revealed this irregular noise.

PS. It is always helpful if you state the year of your car and any mods there may be. Without this information, asking questions about it only results in some answers that are pure guesses.

[spoons2k09]

Great info again Repiv, so here is where I am at.

the s2000 that i checked 3 where 08 and 09 and 1 was an 03 my car is an 03 s2k with just suspension done and CAI. I personally to tell you the truth have never liked Cold Air Intakes and see no reason for them but I have always had a Supercharger or a Turbo on all my cars so that is why.

thx for the CAI info with the bypass valve I did give in though and just bought the valve because I do not want to worry about it. I mean to be honest the difference in gains because of that valve will be so minuscule it wont matter and I live in a pretty rainy place.

um now with the non aem Bypass Valve I realize the golden rule do not fix it if its not broken. my question to you though is cant that little filter on the top get clogged? I blew it out with air but it did not help 100 percent it did help though so I just think its clogged with dirt is this possible?

And I realize the s2000 tech problem that is why I am trying to learn as much as possible about them because your right a lot of master techs have no interest in the tuner scene or in the s2000/track scene either and it frustrates me.

[repiv]

The 08 and 09 doesn't have a 2ndary inj. system, so no valve. The other 03 may have had a modification done to eliminate the system at one point and the ECU was tricked into thinking there still is a working system when it was put back to stock for resale. You can't depend on those for comparison.
If that filter is clogged and it's not functioning to the satisfaction of all the sensors, it WILL throw a CEL. DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. That valve is part of a system that is subjected to cycles of pressure and vacuum. When air is mildly compressed and then sees vacuum, moisture comes out. I don't want to seem indelicate, but you seem to be obsessed with this little valve. If you continue to blow on or into it or keep messing with it, you'll break it and then you WILL need to buy another one. I've hosed down my whole engine bay many times to clean it and I've gotten that valve totally water logged. It doesn't matter. You don't have a CEL now but if you keep messing with it, you will.
If you want to go buy a new valve, then do it. It won't change anything but at least you'll stop worrying about it.

[spoons2k09]

ok I 100 percent understand what you are saying but there is no way that stock that filter on the by pass makes that noise mine does and yes maybe I have not thrown a CEL yet but I might later because of that valve making the noises it does. So you are saying if I replace that filter my noise wont change because the s2000 stock does not make the noise mine makes from that filter no matter what and I have nothing done to my s2k besides that CAI which should not change the filter noise when I take it off and put it on.

[repiv]

So you are saying if I replace that filter my noise wont change because the s2000 stock does not make the noise mine makes from that filter no matter what and I have nothing done to my s2k besides that CAI which should not change the filter noise when I take it off and put it on.

I'm not saying that at all. You don't have a CEL now with the noise. You likely won't have a CEL with a new part, noise or no noise. As far as I know, that thing you're calling a filter may or may not actually be a filter and I don't think you can change just that part. You have to buy a complete whole assembly. It's not a servicable item. I've known guys who have messed with and then broke it.
All I'm saying is DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. You're putting way too much emphasis on some insignificant noise coming from a secondary emissions control system. But it seems you won't be happy till you buy one, so whatever makes you satisfied, do it. Other than that, it's pointless. It's working now so why fret over it. Wait till something goes wrong, THEN worry about it. Your engine won't explode if the secondary air injection system quits.

[spoons2k09]

Yep, I am just kinda picky even about noises as you can tell.

I was never trying to seem like I thought it was a horrible thing to not have it on or have it on if I was not popping up a CEL but the noise is the only thing that just concerned me It sounded horrible. Anyways thx for all the help Repiv you know alot about these cars so I love asking you questions about them it just grows my understanding of them that much larger.

I just went ahead and bought the part and yes you can not individually change the part I am talking about you have to replace the whole bypass valve solonoid which I am just gonna do my cost isint too bad.


Thx for all the help.

[repiv]

I just went ahead and bought the part and yes you can not individually change the part I am talking about you have to replace the whole bypass valve solonoid which I am just gonna do my cost isint too bad.

When you put it in, I'd be curious to hear if anything changed with the noise. Come back and give us an update.
Hopefully those other techs you got there can learn something from you.