repiv
10-12-2009, 09:07 PM
(Reprint series)
Question: a question that I had regarding an S2K that I was interested in purchasing. To start, the car is an '06 with 25K on the clock. It's being offered for sale at an auction by Honda; an off lease vehicle from Idaho. The car's overall condition is good. I did get a chance to take it for a test drive, everything seemed normal (vs. a 2008 my friend owns) except for the clutch. It was very stiff, and I actually had to make an effort to depress the clutch, and keep it depressed against the floor. It felt as if it wanted to "pop" back up when I had it down. Basically, the clutch pedal had a high level of resistance. When I drove it, it seemed to grab fine. Didn't feel any slipping and it actually felt like it was "gripping" quite firmly while changing gears.
Is this something that sounds like an aftermarket clutch or pressure plate? I've never had any experience with aftermarket clutches so I have no clue. Or does this sound like something is wrong with other components?
Since it was a lease vehicle with low miles, I figured the original owner *most likely* didn't have it modified to the point to have to change the clutch, but I could be wrong.
Any signs I should be looking for to determine whether this is a small issue or a big one?
Reply: To be absolutely sure, you really need to find out who has had the car previously. Typically, an aftermarket heavy duty clutch pressure plate is a bout 40% to 50% stiffer pedal pressure than an AP1 (pre-'04). All AP2 cars ('04 to present) had slightly softer clutch pedal feel, so that would make an aftermarket HD PP feel 60% to 75% stiffer by comparison. By the sounds of what you felt, it seems more than this, which might lead me to believe something is not quite right. Like you say, I can't imagine someone with a lease vehicle putting that kind of money into the car unless they wore the clutch out doing stupid things. Then it's possible they may have had the clutch changed (since warranty wouldn't cover such damage) and possibly even removed the clutch delay valve (which many AP2 owners have done just to get a more immediate clutch actuation.
Does the clutch move through it's whole range smoothly or is there an odd stickiness to it? Do you know if the clutch grabs well when you try to take off really quickly (to the point of spinning the tires)? That would be a sign that you have the CDV removed and an aftermarket HD clutch in place. By your description, only a competition clutch or a damaged one would feel that stiff. If you had a full competition clutch, it would very difficult to smoothly drive the car on the street as they tend to be quite "grabby" and an "ON/OFF" kind of actuation. You said it seems to drive fine, so further investigation might be in order. It's always "buyer beware".
If possible, you should have the car inspected by a knowledgeable S2000 person.
Q: Unfortunately, there's no way I can drive the car again today or find out what the previous owner did to the car at this point. I've planned an inspection if I do get the car, but I can't imagine how they'd be able to take a look at the clutch for me.
When I took the car for a spin, its seemed to shift normally. Went WOT 1st-2nd and VTEC hit pretty hard, breaking the rear tires loose (granted zero tread on the tires) kicking on the traction control.
I've never driven an '06 but I can't imagine the stock clutch feeling this way normally. Could there be something mechanically involved with the stock clutch that may need re greasing or replacement?
R: A mechanic who's familiar with the S2000 will know just by operating the clutch is there is something not right. He should also know if it feels normal for an aftermarket clutch. If the clutch travel is not notchy or have points of resistance, then it's likely there's an very HD PP in it. If the stock clutch is that heavy, that could mean the TO bearing is not lubed up right and it's sticking, but then, you'd likely feel "lumpy" spots in the pedal travel. Your clutch release fork and slave cylinder plunger ball may be very dry and sticky but again, this would give a non-smooth clutch pedal range of motion, which you say there isn't. Same goes for the master cylinder. If it's in bad shape from water contamination or from using the wrong type of fluid, it could be a source for high resistance in the pedal travel.
There is no way to confirm the type of clutch without taking the tranny off. Best thing is to have someone with S2000 experience drive it for a better assessment, but that would have to come after you've bought it.
Q: I'll have a lot more time tomorrow to determine how the clutch feels for sure, I'll also be taking it in for a PPI at the local Honda dealership so hopefully they can offer some input as well. If its something that sounds as simple as greasing components of the stock clutch I'm all for it, hopefully its not an aftermarket clutch that was replaced in a shoddy fashion. I did some investigative work and found out where the car came from so I called them up and asked for the service record. It showed regular interval oil changes at the dealership, so that's a good sign that at least the engine was (or should have been) taken care of.
Can you describe lumpy spots in the clutch pedal range of motion?
R: "Lumpy spots" in pedal movement .................. When you operate the clutch pedal down and up, it should feel smooth for the whole travel. Is there a place or places where it feels like there's more resistance or suddenly much less resistance? Is there a spot where it feels like it's "stuck" and you have to push a little harder to get past it? These would all indicate damaged master or slave cylinders or a misaligned release fork to slave cylinder plunger.
Question: a question that I had regarding an S2K that I was interested in purchasing. To start, the car is an '06 with 25K on the clock. It's being offered for sale at an auction by Honda; an off lease vehicle from Idaho. The car's overall condition is good. I did get a chance to take it for a test drive, everything seemed normal (vs. a 2008 my friend owns) except for the clutch. It was very stiff, and I actually had to make an effort to depress the clutch, and keep it depressed against the floor. It felt as if it wanted to "pop" back up when I had it down. Basically, the clutch pedal had a high level of resistance. When I drove it, it seemed to grab fine. Didn't feel any slipping and it actually felt like it was "gripping" quite firmly while changing gears.
Is this something that sounds like an aftermarket clutch or pressure plate? I've never had any experience with aftermarket clutches so I have no clue. Or does this sound like something is wrong with other components?
Since it was a lease vehicle with low miles, I figured the original owner *most likely* didn't have it modified to the point to have to change the clutch, but I could be wrong.
Any signs I should be looking for to determine whether this is a small issue or a big one?
Reply: To be absolutely sure, you really need to find out who has had the car previously. Typically, an aftermarket heavy duty clutch pressure plate is a bout 40% to 50% stiffer pedal pressure than an AP1 (pre-'04). All AP2 cars ('04 to present) had slightly softer clutch pedal feel, so that would make an aftermarket HD PP feel 60% to 75% stiffer by comparison. By the sounds of what you felt, it seems more than this, which might lead me to believe something is not quite right. Like you say, I can't imagine someone with a lease vehicle putting that kind of money into the car unless they wore the clutch out doing stupid things. Then it's possible they may have had the clutch changed (since warranty wouldn't cover such damage) and possibly even removed the clutch delay valve (which many AP2 owners have done just to get a more immediate clutch actuation.
Does the clutch move through it's whole range smoothly or is there an odd stickiness to it? Do you know if the clutch grabs well when you try to take off really quickly (to the point of spinning the tires)? That would be a sign that you have the CDV removed and an aftermarket HD clutch in place. By your description, only a competition clutch or a damaged one would feel that stiff. If you had a full competition clutch, it would very difficult to smoothly drive the car on the street as they tend to be quite "grabby" and an "ON/OFF" kind of actuation. You said it seems to drive fine, so further investigation might be in order. It's always "buyer beware".
If possible, you should have the car inspected by a knowledgeable S2000 person.
Q: Unfortunately, there's no way I can drive the car again today or find out what the previous owner did to the car at this point. I've planned an inspection if I do get the car, but I can't imagine how they'd be able to take a look at the clutch for me.
When I took the car for a spin, its seemed to shift normally. Went WOT 1st-2nd and VTEC hit pretty hard, breaking the rear tires loose (granted zero tread on the tires) kicking on the traction control.
I've never driven an '06 but I can't imagine the stock clutch feeling this way normally. Could there be something mechanically involved with the stock clutch that may need re greasing or replacement?
R: A mechanic who's familiar with the S2000 will know just by operating the clutch is there is something not right. He should also know if it feels normal for an aftermarket clutch. If the clutch travel is not notchy or have points of resistance, then it's likely there's an very HD PP in it. If the stock clutch is that heavy, that could mean the TO bearing is not lubed up right and it's sticking, but then, you'd likely feel "lumpy" spots in the pedal travel. Your clutch release fork and slave cylinder plunger ball may be very dry and sticky but again, this would give a non-smooth clutch pedal range of motion, which you say there isn't. Same goes for the master cylinder. If it's in bad shape from water contamination or from using the wrong type of fluid, it could be a source for high resistance in the pedal travel.
There is no way to confirm the type of clutch without taking the tranny off. Best thing is to have someone with S2000 experience drive it for a better assessment, but that would have to come after you've bought it.
Q: I'll have a lot more time tomorrow to determine how the clutch feels for sure, I'll also be taking it in for a PPI at the local Honda dealership so hopefully they can offer some input as well. If its something that sounds as simple as greasing components of the stock clutch I'm all for it, hopefully its not an aftermarket clutch that was replaced in a shoddy fashion. I did some investigative work and found out where the car came from so I called them up and asked for the service record. It showed regular interval oil changes at the dealership, so that's a good sign that at least the engine was (or should have been) taken care of.
Can you describe lumpy spots in the clutch pedal range of motion?
R: "Lumpy spots" in pedal movement .................. When you operate the clutch pedal down and up, it should feel smooth for the whole travel. Is there a place or places where it feels like there's more resistance or suddenly much less resistance? Is there a spot where it feels like it's "stuck" and you have to push a little harder to get past it? These would all indicate damaged master or slave cylinders or a misaligned release fork to slave cylinder plunger.