Clutch? pressure plate?

[Tmann]

So tonight i went WOT through 1st and second then let it down rev in third to the stop sign. when i stopped i smelled clutch and when i tried to put it in first it was extremely difficult. when it went into first it wanted to roll forward. i parked it for an hour or so, and when i got back in it was extremely difficult to get into Reverse, and still tried to creep forward when putting it in 1st.

i found no leaks, and plenty of fluid in the reservoir.
01 s2k w/ no performance mods, 117k miles.
Do i need a new clutch disk and pressure plate?

[repiv]

The fact that you are having difficulty getting into 1st and reverse likely means your clutch is unable to fully disengage. The reason for this may be one of two different things.
1. When you drove it WOT through 2 gear changes, you probably glazed the clutch friction material and the clutch disc may be sticking to either the flywheel or the PP or both. Parking it for an hour may not be long enough. Leave it alone for overnight and try again in the morning. If it's OK, drive it easy for a few days. If it's still not right, then read point #2.
2. Finding no leaks and having plenty of fluid in the reservoir is not necessarily an indication that the clutch hydraulics is fine. When was the last time you had the clutch fluid flushed and bled with proper new fluid? If the fluid is old, burning up the clutch as you may have done can transfer enough heat into the fluid near the slave cylinder to boil the water in the fluid. Now, you may have air in the system. A change of fluid at this time might be in order.

PS. Confirm that your transmission is OK by leaving the engine off and rowing through the gears. Can you access 1st and reverse (with clutch pedal to the floor) without a problem? If there is still a problem, then there may be something wrong internally with the transmission itself.

PPS. If you're still on your original clutch with 117K miles, you may be in need of a new clutch anyway. This would mean new or re-surfaced flywheel, new or re-surfaced PP, new disc, new TO bearing. For the kind of money it takes to do a clutch job, re-surfacing is false economy. Just buy new parts.

[Tmann]

thanks, i'll see what its like tomorrow afternoon.

if i was to go ahead and get a new clutch kit with flywheel, PP, and disc and all.. what would you recommend. its not a daily but will have a good amount of miles put on it and a little spirited driving now and then..

[repiv]

For the type of driving you described, piece together a kit that includes the OEM TO bearing and clutch disc. If you can justify the additional cost, an ACT HD PP will give the clutch more clamping force, which will make it more difficult for you to accidentally slip it (and glaze it). A lightened flywheel (and new pilot bearing) will let the engine spin up easier and bit quicker. If money is an issue, just get everything OEM. It's worked for 117K miles, so it will work for the next 100K.
You can go to Hardtopguy to buy the parts or to just compare prices with your local dealer or another online parts supplier. You'll need to take into account shipping costs.

[Tmann]

I was lookin at an Exedy clutch kit
something like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EXEDY-CLUTCH-KIT-FIDANZA-FLYWHEEL-00-08-S2000-F20C-F22C_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem518b15cbe0QQitemZ3 50225812448QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAcc essories

i'll checkout hardtop guy and see what i can come up with, thanks

[repiv]

I was lookin at an Exedy clutch kit
something like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EXEDY-CLUTCH-KIT-FIDANZA-FLYWHEEL-00-08-S2000-F20C-F22C_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem518b15cbe0QQitemZ3 50225812448QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAcc essories

i'll checkout hardtop guy and see what i can come up with, thanks
That's a pretty good buy. It should work well for you. Just stay away from the puck type clutches. They aren't very useful for street applications.

[Tmann]

i just dont know if i should get the chromoly or aluminum flywheel.
i figure if i go FI i will need a new clutch anyways, so at that time i can get a chromoly flywheel.

and no joke about the puck clutches. my friend had some stage 14 ninja 6 puck clutch on a LS Vtec Integra.. stupidest thing i've ever driven...

[repiv]

Buy the flywheel on the basis of price and weight and durability. I think aluminum won't wear as well as steel or chrome/moly. For FI, the flywheel won't really make that much difference anyway. It's the PP that makes all the difference (more clamping force).

Oh, and competition clutches don't always fill the bill either:

http://forums.s2kca.com/showthread.php?t=32308

[spinixguy]

If going FI would you still recommend the OEM clutch?

[Tmann]

If going FI would you still recommend the OEM clutch?

i think i can answer this one for you... your stock clutch might hold up for a little bit on FI depending on what kinda shape its in, and if you dont run it too hard. but it will defintely need to be replaced with a FI set up. I just dont see a stock clutch holding up to those kind of power gains. for very long at least

[repiv]

The short answer is yes. The long term answer is no. If your OEM clutch is in good shape, you'll get by for a little while with FI, but eventually, it will begin to slip. If you be mindful of matching revs all the time (including upshifting), then a good OEM clutch will continue to work for a long time, however, when driving vigorously, we don't tend to match revs and not even a NA S2000 can take it.
Insofar as the parts are concerned, the OEM clutch disc will work fine with FI unless you are going drag racing. The HD PP clamps harder and hooks up the clutch easier and this reduces amount of wear to a considerable degree.

[Tmann]

so i ordered the ACT HD PP today with the street disc.

probably going to be doing the install next weekend. i'm debating on whether or not to get it to a shop on a lift or just put it on 20-24" jack stands.
as far as the flywheel i think i'm going to see what shape mine is in and have it machined and resurfaced if its not too bad. how would you guess it would look with 117k on it?

got any other tips for the install? i looked at the step by step on the forum and doesnt seem there is anything out of the ordinary.

[repiv]

117K miles on a flywheel can be quite considerable if it has seem some tough driving. It may be too heat checked to be re-surfaced. Each flywheel has a number stamped on it to say just how much can be machined off. If it requires too much to bring it back to servicable condition, you will have no choice but to get a new one. I gave my old flywheel to someone locally who had about your kind of mileage and his was not re-usable.
Did you get yourself a new TO bearing? You'll also need to do a little prep work on the release fork cup and slave cylinder pistion ball. These need to be be cleaned off and de-burred of any corrosion deposits and greased up well.
If you've read my "how to", then you've got everything I can think of to help you out.

[Tmann]

sounds reasonable. could you tell me if this flywheel would be a safe bet?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ACT-Lightweight-Racing-Flywheel-Honda-S2000_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4a9b5da7c9QQitemZ 320434186185QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAc cessories

[repiv]

With a purchase like that, you will always run the risk of getting a sub-standard item. A Toda lightweight flywheel is a well known product for the S2000, however, a Toda "racing" flywheel that has 10K miles on it and then machined may be questionable. It's a matter of "Buyer Beware". You may also find the driving characteristics of such a weight reduced piece to be difficult to live with. A clutch job is a big undertaking. Be careful what you put into it. At best, it's another big job to re-do it. At worst, if bad parts grenade, they could take out other parts with it. Then it becomes a really expensive big job.
Personally, I wouldn't do it, but the choice must be yours.

[Tmann]

makes sense.. thats why i was tentative about it.. but holy crap 560+ for a flywheel is breaking my bank a little after the 500+ for the clutch and PP..

[repiv]

I don't know where you're getting that kind of pricing. You can get an OEM flywheel from HTguy for $290.00 and that includes the pilot bearing. Or find someone with a slightly used OEM flywheel after they went to an aftermarket one. Just re-surface it. I gave mine to a guy who did just that. Cost of machining was about 40 bucks.

http://hardtopguy.com/store/product.php?productid=91&cat=56&page=1

The other stuff shouldn't have cost that much either. You'll still need a new TO bearing.

[Tmann]

I installed a act HD pp and street disk and flywheel. It was doing fine for about 200 miles, haven't put any power to it and today the clutch pedel went really soft on me and only feels slightly firm when it's almost to the floor. Within about 2 inches from fully compressed. Any ideas? Clutch also had the AP1 buzz on the downrev..??

[repiv]

I installed a act HD pp and street disk and flywheel. It was doing fine for about 200 miles, haven't put any power to it and today the clutch pedel went really soft on me and only feels slightly firm when it's almost to the floor. Within about 2 inches from fully compressed. Any ideas? Clutch also had the AP1 buzz on the downrev..??
Sounds like you've got air or water in the clutch fluid. Do a complete flush and bleed of the system and see how that works out for you. There's a "How To" in the "How To" section. Often times, when a clutch job is done, the guy doing it didn't secure the slave cylinder well and the plunger came out too far, drawing in a small amount of air. Since the plunger is covered by a rubber boot, it's hard to see that it is too far out. It may have just took this long for the air to work its way into a part of the system to create the problem you know have.
There was a time when ACT made their "street discs" out of Honda OEM clutch discs. They just took them and re-worked them a bit to their specs. If they used the old stock of OEM discs, then the clutch decel buzz is still there. Chances are your disc is such an item. They probably still use Honda OEM discs, but their supply of those older discs have now been sold off.

[Tmann]

Okay thanks. I'll try that. It worries me because my last clutch went bad because the spring actually broke out of the disk and was wedged between the pressure plate and the clutch disc and felt the same but did not have any resistance like it does now in the last few inches

[geras003]

Which flywheel did you end up going with?

I have ACT PP with ACT street disk and ACT 8.6 lbs flywheel - and it has horrible buzz - I'm still annoyed by it after putting almost 20K miles on it...

Okay thanks. I'll try that. It worries me because my last clutch went bad because the spring actually broke out of the disk and was wedged between the pressure plate and the clutch disc and felt the same but did not have any resistance like it does now in the last few inches

[repiv]

Okay thanks. I'll try that. It worries me because my last clutch went bad because the spring actually broke out of the disk and was wedged between the pressure plate and the clutch disc and felt the same but did not have any resistance like it does now in the last few inches
What you had was likely a clutch disc spring retainer break apart. Those springs do not affect the pressure you feel at the pedal. The pedal pressure is determined by the pressure plate spring fingers. The sponginess is likely due to air being compressed when you push the pedal down.

[Tmann]

Which flywheel did you end up going with?

I have ACT PP with ACT street disk and ACT 8.6 lbs flywheel - and it has horrible buzz - I'm still annoyed by it after putting almost 20K miles on it...

same as you have. at least i know the horrible buzz happened to you too and you got 20k on it already.. but yes it is a good bit annoying

also after the install my clutch went out again a couple days later. i realized i had no fluid in the reservoir so i bled the line and i kept losing fluid.

I noticed fluid on the underside of the slave cylinder boot a couple times so i'm pretty sure it is leaking. ordered a new Slave and SS clutch line today. i do not see any signs of the master cylinder leaking.

what could of caused the slave to start leaking after the clutch swap? more pressure with the HD PP and having 117k on it?

[repiv]

what could of caused the slave to start leaking after the clutch swap? more pressure with the HD PP and having 117k on it?
With that many miles on it, the slave cylinder is well worn. The biggest mistake made by people doing clutch jobs is to NOT pay attention to the slave cylinder plunger. It naturally wants to come out of the cylinder every time the slave assembly is bumped or jostled. It is up to the person doing the work to constantly be pushing the plunger back in or to tie it up in the "pushed in" position. When it comes out too far, fluid is leaked and dirt and debris enters the cylinder behind the plunger. This crap terminates an already well worn and etched cylinder bore and damages the rubber seal. The additional pressure the fluid has to exert to push against a HD PP will also aggravate the situation.
Things that people can do to prevent this sort of thing from happening:
1. Change the clutch fluid regularly - every 2 to 3 years. Clutch fluid is brake fluid and it sucks up water constantly. Water will slowly rust the cylinder bores and pistons of the master and slave cylinders.
2. When doing a clutch job, load and secure the slave plunger well inside the cylinder. Clean the area around the rubber seals of all built up crud. This same crud will enter the cylinder if the plunger comes out too far.
3. Do a fluid flush and bleed after any clutch job.

[Tmann]

So I ordered a slave and a stainless line. Once I get those on, my master cylinder isn't going to go out is it?
I also think i'll do a tranny fluid swap while I'm at it. Any recommendations on fluid for the clutch and tranny?

[repiv]

So I ordered a slave and a stainless line. Once I get those on, my master cylinder isn't going to go out is it?
I also think i'll do a tranny fluid swap while I'm at it. Any recommendations on fluid for the clutch and tranny?
The master cylinder going has nothing to do with the rest of the system. If it's ready to go, it'll go. Usually, it's the master that goes first. You can see it leak into the cabin where the plunger goes into the firewall.
Honda MTF is the most widely used fluid for the transmission and unless you've got a problem with the tranny, it's also the best.
Clutch fluid is just brake fluid. You can use DOT 3 or DOT 4 in any brand name fluid.

[Tmann]

what problems with the tranny would cause you to use a different fluid?

[repiv]

what problems with the tranny would cause you to use a different fluid?
Early AP2 trannies have been known to pop out of second gear on deceleration. The cure for this would be a 50:50 mix of Honda MTF and Amsoil MTF. Some people get some very rough shifts, even after warm up. These people have had good luck with different products like the GM Syncromesh Friction Modified fluid. Others find smoother shifting with Redline products and straight Amsoil products. However, many of these have also commented that these other fluids don't last long and the rough shifting returns within months. The best, all round fluid is still Honda MTF.
If you "skip shift", you will likely ruin the teeth on the syncros and no fluid will help.