flooded trunk--where's my snorkel?

[Bones]

I've had water below the panel that covers the jack and tools in the past. I simply pulled out the foam container and dumped it, not a big deal. This time the water was above the jack container and when I pulled it out, I could tell there was more water below the carpeting. I pulled that out to expose the bare metal beneath and there was another gallon or two of water. All told, I think I sponged up 3-4 gallons of water.

Where might this be coming in? We had a torrent of rain a couple weeks ago. I had a new top installed a year ago. Is it just part of the joy of convertible ownership?

In the pic below (pre-sponging) It appears that there are two grey plastic plugs with crosshairs. Are they drains? The paint is bubbling around them now so I guess I've lost the war already. :sad:

I've included the link in case the pic does not show in my post.

http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/Mr_Bonesy/?action=view&current=photo.jpg&evt=user_media_share

http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii197/Mr_Bonesy/?action=view&current=photo.jpg&evt=user_media_share

this is a 2004.

Thanks!

[dfws2k]

wow i've never had that happen in my 4 years of ownership, maybe your top wasn't installed 100% correctly?

[Coop]

from the tail lights,

I had water run down the side of the trunk and then back behind the tail lights and into the trunk.

Are you still under warranty ?

Of not, then some type of sealant and run it along the area where the black meets the metal, to seal that area.

[repiv]

I had a new top installed a year ago.
When it rains or when you wash the car, water runs down the rear window and into that crevice below that black plastic trim that goes from one side of the car to the other. In that crevice is a water gutter of sorts. On these water gutters, there are drain tubes. I'll bet that when the top was replaced those tubes were never connected up to the gutters and the water goes directly into your trunk.
Those crosshair plugs are not meant to be drains. If you look under the car, there is no exit from those plugs. Those are more for air circulation between panels and for very small amounts of water from condensation to go till it can evaporate. They aren't for getting rid of water to that extent. Otherwise, you wouldn't have gallons of water to remove.

[repiv]

Here you go:

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=S2000&catcgry2=2000&catcgry3=2DR+S2000&catcgry4=KA6MT&catcgry5=SOFT+TOP+FRAME

You should look at parts 17 through 21. There's a left and right side drain system. The service manual says you have to remove the soft top to access these tubes and tanks, however, if it were me, I would strip out the trunk liner and see if I could reach those parts from the trunk. I believe they are located very close to the panel just in front of each rear tire. Worth a try and far better than having to take the soft top off again.

[desmo4]

I have a great deal of experience with this issue and believe it occurs much more frequently than it is reported due to the fact that most S2K owners are unaware of it. Water can come into the trunk from numerous places. The trunk lid gasket, keep some lubricant on it. The taillights. If the gasket surface can be dirty. The air vent which is only visible with the truck lining removed. It is on the rear panel and can be seen with a flashlight above and to the left of the license. plate. This one is most insidious. It can leak in a strong horizontal rainstorm or a car wash. The way I found many different leaks was to remove the trunk lining, I used a water soluble marker and drew concentric rings from the bottom of the trunk to the sides of the fenders. The wait for a rain storm. Rain water has lower surface tension than tap water so it will penetrate far better. I found leaks in the taillights, and the vent in the rear of the trunk. I made a baffle out of a plastic bottle and used duct tape to put over the vent so it hinged from the top. This stopped the leaks in my original trunk. With my new trunk,post accident, the leaking is like it's going through a sieve. I used expandable foam to fill the entire rear panel of the trunk and it hasn't leaked since. But if can help it I will never move from CA for a major test.

Jonathan

[desmo4]

PS if you are going to put in a baffle then wear a kevlar glove since it very tight and your a sure to loose some skin.

Jonathan

[Bones]

Thanks for all your help so far. I had a chance to check things out recently in light of what you've all suggested. I poured some water on the roof at the rear passenger side. I can see a little stream flowing between some metal at the side behind the carpeting next to the removable spare tire cover. So maybe the drain tubing is disconnected.
The problem is, there is no way to access where I think Parts 17-21 are located from inside the trunk. There is metal in the way. Can the panels behind the seats be removed easily and would that give me access to the roof?

There are some buttons that hold the trim panels in place but they are different than most of the ones in the trunk. They have a button within the button. Is there a trick to removing them or do they snap and I just have to buy new ones?

And then to top things off, it's been raining 12 hours and the trunk is pretty much dry today.
:duh:

I'm going to try to tackle more this weekend.
Thanks!

[dfws2k]

the button within a button...you can depress the middle button with a pen or something similar, then take it out, you shouldn't destroy them

[repiv]

There is a panel behind each seat that has vents in it. That panel comes out. The hooks you see has a hatch that you pry open and behind that is a bolt that you unscrew. Remove both bolts and the panel is held on by 6 pressure snaps. Start at a corner and unsnap as you go across the top and bottom. You will then have access to the spare tire and the back of the trunk liner (fuel filler pipe). You may still not gain access to those drain tubes as the service manual states that the soft top has to be dismantled to get at them. Thank the people who did you top last. They are likely the ones who pulled the drain tubes off and didn't put them back on when they installed your top.
Here's that panel and those hooks I was talking about. I just happen to have speakers installed in those panels.

http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/18749/2610108020025981935S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2610108020025981935dTIykg)

[desmo4]

Note once you pry open the cover under the hook the bolt is 8mm. It has a Phillips it the top of the bolt,but a 1/4" socket wrench is much easier.

Jonathan

[Coop]

It's been raining for the last couple of days here, today at the track I cleaned out my trunk for a couple of runs, and guess what I had about 1/4 of water in the bottom of the trunk.

I pulled all the trunk liners tonight and with a little test, took a 16oz bottle of water and pored it along the trunk channels on each side and about 30 sec later, had a small amount of water in the trunk. Tomorrow I will try to make time to see if I can find the route of the water.

[Coop]

It's been raining for the last couple of days here, today at the track I cleaned out my trunk for a couple of runs, and guess what I had about 1/4 of water in the bottom of the trunk.

I pulled all the trunk liners tonight and with a little test, took a 16oz bottle of water and poured it along the trunk channels on each side and about 30 sec later, had a small amount of water in the trunk. Tomorrow I will try to make time to see if I can find the route of the water.

[desmo4]

Thanks for all your help so far. I had a chance to check things out recently in light of what you've all suggested. I poured some water on the roof at the rear passenger side. I can see a little stream flowing between some metal at the side behind the carpeting next to the removable spare tire cover. So maybe the drain tubing is disconnected.
The problem is, there is no way to access where I think Parts 17-21 are located from inside the trunk. There is metal in the way. Can the panels behind the seats be removed easily and would that give me access to the roof?

There are some buttons that hold the trim panels in place but they are different than most of the ones in the trunk. They have a button within the button. Is there a trick to removing them or do they snap and I just have to buy new ones?

And then to top things off, it's been raining 12 hours and the trunk is pretty much dry today.
:duh:
I'm going to try to tackle more this weekend.
Thanks!

Snapon makes a very nice tool for removing the buttons which do not have a pin in the center but can be used for the pin type once the pin has been depressed. It allows removal without destruction. I would recommend buying an assortment of buttons before doing anything too involved as sometime they just disappear while you are working.

http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww132/desmo4usa/pinremovingtool.jpg

Jonathan

[rosscoe21]

Here is your problem. The rubber gaurd that goes around the base of the top has a lip on it. When a new top is installed, the outside edge of the rain guttering has to be pushed behind the rubber lip. If it is not, then water seeps in through the base of the top and into the turnk. How do I know this you ask? Honda replaced my top under warranty a while back. I noticed that right after when it would rain or I would wash my car the trunk would get wet. I paid no attention to it for a while, then the top ripped again due to the burs on the frame. They wouldn't cover this one so I decided to install it myself. When I did I noticed that the guttering had just been attatched to the studs that line the frame and that there was a lip on the rubber gaurd. Atter the new top went on I made sure and pushed the outer lip of the guttering behind the rubber lip and no more leaky leaky.

[Coop]

Here is your problem. The rubber gaurd that goes around the base of the top has a lip on it. When a new top is installed, the outside edge of the rain guttering has to be pushed behind the rubber lip. If it is not, then water seeps in through the base of the top and into the turnk. How do I know this you ask? Honda replaced my top under warranty a while back. I noticed that right after when it would rain or I would wash my car the trunk would get wet. I paid no attention to it for a while, then the top ripped again due to the burs on the frame. They wouldn't cover this one so I decided to install it myself. When I did I noticed that the guttering had just been attatched to the studs that line the frame and that there was a lip on the rubber gaurd. Atter the new top went on I made sure and pushed the outer lip of the guttering behind the rubber lip and no more leaky leaky.

I have a CR, so I don't think this is my problem, no soft top

[Marrk]

What's the best way to prevent water from entering thru the tail lights? This is not clear to me.

Thanks.




I have a great deal of experience with this issue and believe it occurs much more frequently than it is reported due to the fact that most S2K owners are unaware of it. Water can come into the trunk from numerous places. The trunk lid gasket, keep some lubricant on it. The taillights. If the gasket surface can be dirty. The air vent which is only visible with the truck lining removed. It is on the rear panel and can be seen with a flashlight above and to the left of the license. plate. This one is most insidious. It can leak in a strong horizontal rainstorm or a car wash. The way I found many different leaks was to remove the trunk lining, I used a water soluble marker and drew concentric rings from the bottom of the trunk to the sides of the fenders. The wait for a rain storm. Rain water has lower surface tension than tap water so it will penetrate far better. I found leaks in the taillights, and the vent in the rear of the trunk. I made a baffle out of a plastic bottle and used duct tape to put over the vent so it hinged from the top. This stopped the leaks in my original trunk. With my new trunk,post accident, the leaking is like it's going through a sieve. I used expandable foam to fill the entire rear panel of the trunk and it hasn't leaked since. But if can help it I will never move from CA for a major test.

Jonathan

[Coop]

What's the best way to prevent water from entering thru the tail lights? This is not clear to me.

Thanks.

if it's the tail light, then the seal need to be replaced or the water needs a new route around it the seal. Putting some silicone where the black of the tail lights meets the body will route the water over the tail lights and keep it from getting behind them.

[Coop]

I have found that my problem is the rear air vent (part #32 http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=S2000&catcgry2=2008&catcgry3=2DR+CR+WITH+AC&catcgry4=KA6MT&catcgry5=OUTER+PANEL )

As water ran down the side of the trunk, parts of it would be routed down the side of the tail lights to the rear vent and it seal was not doing it job.

I will have pictures and a write up later camera battery went dead

[Coop]

here is my write up to repair my problem.
http://forums.s2kca.com/showthread.php?t=32219
Will leave the liner out for awhile to see if there is something I missed

[rosscoe21]

I have a CR, so I don't think this is my problem, no soft top

The op doesn't have a cr. And from what he is describing sounds like the rain guttering wasn't fitted in properly.

[Marrk]

thanks coop et al,

I think I got the principle of all this.

I just went out to look at my car, but realized that I am too lazy to remove the trunk lining. The trunk lining has no water stains and the car has not been in the wet since December '07, so I'm gonna roll dice on this and guess that I'm barking up an unnecessary tree.

BTW, those plastic button fasteners that hold the trunk llning in, they just pop out, right?

thanks again.

[Coop]

thanks coop et al,

I think I got the principle of all this.

I just went out to look at my car, but realized that I am too lazy to remove the trunk lining. The trunk lining has no water stains and the car has not been in the wet since December '07, so I'm gonna roll dice on this and guess that I'm barking up an unnecessary tree.

BTW, those plastic button fasteners that hold the trunk llning in, they just pop out, right?

thanks again.

the ones that have a little pin in them, push the center down about 1/8" and then the whole piece pulls out. The others just pull out, someone a couple of post earlier showed a good tool for that, but some will still break.

[Marrk]

the ones that have a little pin in them, push the center down about 1/8" and then the whole piece pulls out. The others just pull out, someone a couple of post earlier showed a good tool for that, but some will still break.

Right. I saw it. The ones I am referring to are pin-less (all our cars are the same, right?). Thanks.

[Coop]

Right. I saw it. The ones I am referring to are pin-less (all our cars are the same, right?). Thanks.

should be the same, my 02 was the same as my 08

[Bones]

Atter the new top went on I made sure and pushed the outer lip of the guttering behind the rubber lip and no more leaky leaky.

Is this something I can check after it's been installed?

This whole thing is pretty funny. It rained almost 24 hrs. on Saturday and the trunk was dry :confused: Taillights, rubber seal, drain tubes....??? Eh, what can ya do?

I have one of those trim removal tools, it's awesome! :thumbup:

[desmo4]

What's the best way to prevent water from entering thru the tail lights? This is not clear to me.

Thanks.

I have used 2 methods. I both cases I cleaned off the mating surfaces on the light housing and the mounting surface. I used silicon rubber cement and on my recently repaired trunk I used Krytox ultra high vacuum grease.

Jonathan

[rosscoe21]

Is this something I can check after it's been installed?

This whole thing is pretty funny. It rained almost 24 hrs. on Saturday and the trunk was dry :confused: Taillights, rubber seal, drain tubes....??? Eh, what can ya do?

I have one of those trim removal tools, it's awesome! :thumbup:

You have to remove the rear tray, rollbars and remove the three metal pieces that are mounted on the studs along the bottom of the softop. Then you can check to see if the guttering is secured under the rubber lip.