Car won't start

[lols2000]

Drove the car, parked it, and hour later went out to start it.

Turn the key and the dash turns on everything seems to be normal. Lights, radio all electrics seem fine.

When I push the start button I hear nothing.

I don't hear the starter trying to turn. I don't hear the engine turning over. It's as if the starter isn't even getting power.

I cleaned the battery cables and it didn't help.

I checked all the fuses under the dash and under the hood, everything is normal.

I tried boosting the battery, didn't help.

I hear a very faint humming sound when I hold down the start button. Sounds like the fuel pump or something? Definitely not the starter. I don't hear the humming if I push the start button without the clutch pedal pushed in.

Strangely, if I push the start button, the ABS light will come on, and then won't come off until I turn off the dash and turn the key again.

Dave or anyone else have any other ideas before I tow it to a dealership?

[bimdub]

Starter? try tapping it with a 2x4 or similar while someone is pushing the start button?

and if that works.....you should really look into a new starter....

[poolshark743]

I also recommend jacking the car up and lightly tapping the starter with a firm blunt object. I have seen numerous cars this happens to and a few s2k's. You could also run a volt meter to the hot connection on the starter just to make sure you are getting power and not some small critter decided it would be a good idea to make lunch out of your wiring.

[lols2000]

Where is the starter located on these cars if I'm looking at it from the front with the hood open?

edit: if I jack up the car which side am I looking on for the starter? I assume it's close to where the tranny and engine meet?

[desmo4]

It's on the drivers side under the intake manifold, visible from underneath.

Jonathan

[repiv]

Your clutch-starter interlock switch may be busted. There's two switches on the clutch pedal. The C-S switch is the highest up one. The fuel pump will hum regardless of whether or not you're pushing the starter button, if indeed it's the fuel pump you're hearing.

[lols2000]

Well I checked and it does make a different humming noise based on if I push the button with the clutch in or not so it seems to know the position the clutch is in.

[desmo4]

Is a chattering noise? That could be the solenoid.

Jonathan

[repiv]

Check the resting voltage of your battery. Was the donor car running that you tried to jump from? Sometimes, if you battery is nominal and the donor battery is also old, the car should be running. Your battery should be over 12V.

[desmo4]

I really think it's a shorted winding in the starter which could produce the hum or the solenoid. Since all the other electrical systems are working. I would also put you battery on an external charger to prevent damage.

Jonathan

[lols2000]

There is no chattering noise coming from the starter. There is also no click sound when I push the start button. Just a faint humming sound is produced. The lights on the dash do not dim either.

When I had the car jumpstarted the donor car was running, and the donor car has a brand new battery, an '09 civic.

[desmo4]

If it's not the starter interlock switch on the clutch pedal then it sounds like it's the starter. If you can get a jumper from the battery to the plus starter terminal you can test it. It could also be the start button.


Jonathan

[lols2000]

I'll try my dumb luck and see if it starts this morning, engine has cooled down and it's cool outside. If not I'll push start the bastard and goto the dealership.

It's kinda frustrating because I have the tools and knowledge to fix this. On my old car I was able to diagnose no start conditions like a pro since it happened so often. I had the whole bloody starter ignition circuit dedicated to memory and could swap a starter motor in 15 minutes. If I didn't have mono I'd be under the S2K fixing it myself :(

[lols2000]

OK, so this morning first thing I do is try to start it like normal and just like before I was getting the same symptoms with no start.

I push started the car and it started up like it should and drove with absolutely no problems to the dealership. After I parked it, just for fun, I checked to see if I could start it... and it did.

So I turned it off, waited a few minutes and tried again, and it started as if nothing happened.

So the question is... WTF? I declined to have the car tested at the dealership since I knew that with nothing wrong with the car there is absolutely nothing they could diagnose.

Does anybody have any clue as to what could have caused this to happen? And if I should worry about it in the future?

[dfws2k]

sounds like a loose wire....

[DaveL]

or a wire has touched something hot or something that moves a lot and has lost its insulation and was against something metal and was shorted ... and it vibrated enough on your drive to get off the metal and stay off ... check any wire that runs near the exhaust header ... although our starter is on the other side ... so ...

[poolshark743]

Starters get whats known as a "dead spot" sometimes. This happens when the starters life is about up or close to it. The starter may never rest on this spot again there for you may not experience this again and maybe you will. From my experience when this starts to happen it is indication that the starter will fail sometime shortly there after. I am sure peeps here will chime in on this. When the starter gears come to a stop and end in this "dead spot" position it takes a sudden whack to the body of the starter to make it work. I am going to assume you did not attempt to tap the starter. I feel upon you push starting your car this morning the vibration of driving to the dealership loosened the starter gear just enough to move out of the dead spot, which is now why it works just fine. next step is to check the wiring, if all is good most likely it is your starter and needs to be replaced.

[repiv]

The car has had a clutch job done, right? It's possible that the guy who did it was too lazy (or forgot) to put in the upper starter bolt, since it's such a bugger to get to in the first place. That could have left the starter not quite fixed in place and the starter shaft got stuck or jambed crooked on the flywheel. Bump starting it may have dislodged it. Another possibility might be that the shaft retract is faulty. They used to call it the "Bendix".

[desmo4]

The car has had a clutch job done, right? It's possible that the guy who did it was too lazy (or forgot) to put in the upper starter bolt, since it's such a bugger to get to in the first place. That could have left the starter not quite fixed in place and the starter shaft got stuck or jambed crooked on the flywheel. Bump starting it may have dislodged it. Another possibility might be that the shaft retract is faulty. They used to call it the "Bendix".

On that point. Whenever I remove any particularly difficult part from the car I replace the hardware with socket head cap screws. They are in most cases much easier to remove and replace.

Jonathan

[dfws2k]

On that point. Whenever I remove any particularly difficult part from the car I replace the hardware with socket head cap screws. They are in most cases much easier to remove and replace.

Jonathan

? I don't think that would help in this case, but i don't know what a "socket head cap screw" is either

[lols2000]

Yes the car had a clutch job about a month ago. Once I'm not sick anymore I'll get under the car and see if the starter was put back together properly. I assume at minimum I'll need to swing the alternator out of the way to even be able to see the upper starter bolt and all the wire connections to it?

[dfws2k]

i dont think you'll be able to see the upper starter bolt without removing the tranny

[repiv]

Seeing the upper starter bolt is almost impossible without completely removing the alternator AND intake manifold brace. You might be able to feel it from below if you are double jointed. If I were you, I'd just chock it up to a momentary glitch and just go with it till it does it again. Checking that bolt is just too much hassle.

[dfws2k]

i guess if you have one of those mechanic's mirrors you might be able to?

[repiv]

Maybe. With the engine cradle not lowered, there's a lot of hoses and wiring and supports in the way. That's the way I'd try it. :p

[dfws2k]

eh, if i was in that position, i'd go with your suggestion and wait till it acts up again

[s2kobsessed]

sounds like a loose wire....

that would be my guess too.

[desmo4]

Also be careful not to break the knock sensor while poking around under the intake manifold. $112 and a 24 mm deep well socket.

Jonathan

[dave2k]

I hope a more technical person will render an opinion on this, but I seem to recall it's possible that a starter can have a position where it won't move due to a flaw. There can actually be a position in the rotation where it won't start, and all other positions are fine. This is probably a long shot, but it does match your symptoms. Good luck.

[dave2k]

Oppps, I see this has been suggested. I missed the second page before I replied. Sorry.

[whitemike711]

Do you have gas?

[repiv]

Do you have gas?
Hehe .................. No gas and the starter should still turn if it's good.

[lols2000]

So yesterday, after enjoying over a whole day of my car working properly, it stranded me in a mall parking lot. I was parking in a pretty bad position so I couldn't push start it, so onto a flatbed and to the dealership it went.

Of course, at the dealership it started up and worked as if nothing had happened. The mechanic has been starting it throughout the day and it still hasn't failed. Checked the battery, alternator and connections to the starter and everything is nice and tight.

I know if I don't do anything the car will just die on me again so I'm having them put in a new starter.

[bitesthedust]

did that fix your car? ive been having the same exact issue as you have (taking it to the dealer, it working, them thinking im crazy.) Even once i changed the starter, it worked fine or so and than same exact issue would start again. Its driving me nuts!

[repiv]

did that fix your car? ive been having the same exact issue as you have (taking it to the dealer, it working, them thinking im crazy.) Even once i changed the starter, it worked fine or so and than same exact issue would start again. Its driving me nuts!
In your case, you showed that it wasn't the starter. There's still a couple of things that can be considered and eliminated.
When you key ignition to full ON, do you hear the fuel pump prime (whine) for a couple of seconds? If so, that can be eliminated.
When you hit the starter button, does you dash illumination go slightly dim. If it stays just as bright, then it could be the clutch starter interlock switch or it could be the starter button itself. If the dash dims a bit, that would indicate that the starter is drawing current but not working. This would eliminate the interlock switch and button. To eliminate the switch, you'd have to jump the 2 wires going into the switch. To eliminate the button, you'd have to try a known working one.
I thought about the immobilizer being the problem, but if it was not recognizing the key, you would not hear the fuel pump prime and the starter would still work.

[griffon]

Drove the car, parked it, and hour later went out to start it.

Turn the key and the dash turns on everything seems to be normal. Lights, radio all electrics seem fine.

When I push the start button I hear nothing.

I don't hear the starter trying to turn. I don't hear the engine turning over. It's as if the starter isn't even getting power.

I cleaned the battery cables and it didn't help.

I checked all the fuses under the dash and under the hood, everything is normal.

I tried boosting the battery, didn't help.

I hear a very faint humming sound when I hold down the start button. Sounds like the fuel pump or something? Definitely not the starter. I don't hear the humming if I push the start button without the clutch pedal pushed in.

Strangely, if I push the start button, the ABS light will come on, and then won't come off until I turn off the dash and turn the key again.

Dave or anyone else have any other ideas before I tow it to a dealership?

I may have missed this somewhere. If so, forgive me.

What year is your car? And we are talking about an S, right?

[bitesthedust]

In your case, you showed that it wasn't the starter. There's still a couple of things that can be considered and eliminated.
When you key ignition to full ON, do you hear the fuel pump prime (whine) for a couple of seconds? If so, that can be eliminated.
When you hit the starter button, does you dash illumination go slightly dim. If it stays just as bright, then it could be the clutch starter interlock switch or it could be the starter button itself. If the dash dims a bit, that would indicate that the starter is drawing current but not working. This would eliminate the interlock switch and button. To eliminate the switch, you'd have to jump the 2 wires going into the switch. To eliminate the button, you'd have to try a known working one.
I thought about the immobilizer being the problem, but if it was not recognizing the key, you would not hear the fuel pump prime and the starter would still work.

yeah, i do hear a whine when i turn the key ignition to full on, as well as when i push the starter button. when i do push the starter button the dash does not dim. just another note, i did have my clutch replaced fairly recently as well. a few months following, that was when i started having that issue. Figured it was the starter itself and had that replaced, but now the problem started occurring once again. :duh:

[repiv]

The fuel pump prime right after you key ON is only for a couple of seconds. Pushing the starter button after the pump has primed will not make prime it again (no more whine). If you are getting some sort of whine when you hit the starter button, that's something entirely different. Can you confirm that it is different and coming from somewhere else on the car?
A clutch replacement only involves removing the upper starter bolt, but since you had the starter replaced, it should have been noted whether or not both bolts were in place before and after the new starter was put in.
You say the dash lights don't dim. This would mean that there is no current draw from the starter system. Check the clutch-starter interlock switch and the starter button switch itself.
BTW, the clutch-starter interlock switch is not touched when the clutch is replaced. It's located near the top of the clutch pedal under the dash. There are 2 switches on the clutch pedal. One is the cruise control shut off and the other is the interlock switch. The interlock switch is the one that is pushed on when the clutch pedal is pushed to the floor. The CC switch is the one that stops being touched when the pedal is pushed.
Use the ebrake to stop the car from rolling and put the gearshift in neutral just in case, while fooling around with the interlock switch, you accidentally activate the starter.

[bitesthedust]

I do a hear a soft and very faint hum when i turn the ignition coming from the rear, but its barely noticeable. I also was playing around with the interlock switch, when i push the start button with the clutch not pushed its just how it should be. Than while holding the start button and pressing the clutch all i hear are relays clicking within the dash. Do you think it could be an issue thats possibly causing my starter to go bad?

[repiv]

I do a hear a soft and very faint hum when i turn the ignition coming from the rear, but its barely noticeable. I also was playing around with the interlock switch, when i push the start button with the clutch not pushed its just how it should be. Than while holding the start button and pressing the clutch all i hear are relays clicking within the dash. Do you think it could be an issue thats possibly causing my starter to go bad?
This faint hum on ignition has me wondering. When you key ignition to full ON, the fuel pump prime is NOT a faint hum. It's a very distinct whine that is not easy to miss, PLUS, it only whines for a couple of seconds, then goes silent. If you are not hearing the fuel pump prime something is definately not right. The faint hum you hear may simply be the EVAP cannister purge pump, which is very faint. The clicking and stuff in the dash may also simply be the starter solenoid operating but there is not enough electricity getting to the starter.
Have you checked the voltage of your battery lately? You might just have a bad battery. So, are you saying that you have not been able to start your car since your first post here 3 days ago? Have you tried boosting it with another car?

[Bieg]

Just replace the clutch interlock switch. It is the simplest and cheapest (and the most likely) potential problem. Why I believe it is this is because after you push started it and drove it around some you never changed the position of the starter (so odds are it was not on a dead spot) yet it started afterwards. You DID depress the clutch multiple times while driving so you could have cycled the switch till it wound up working.