Oil Burning at Track (KrankVents vs CatchCan vs AP1 Baffle Mod)

[RavynX]

Hey all. I went to Harris Hill for an s2kca track day this past Sunday and had a blast. I was a little concerned when a cloud of blue smoke came out at the end of the long straight between corners 11 and 1. I later found out that due to the g-forces around turn 10, the hard right-hand banked the oil on the driver's side of the engine allowing oil to go through the PCV and route to the intake where it was burned up in the cylinders.

From reading I've found out you can do any of the following...

1) Install an oil catch-can.
2) Modify the AP1 valve cover baffling. (punch holes cleanly through in it to allow oil to drain)
3) Install KrankVents.

I'm trying to figure out which one, if not all, to do. Is it necessary to have them all? Would it be wasteful or cause issues? I have a feeling that modifying the baffling and/or install the KrankVents won't fix the issue 100% because oil vapor might still get through. Any thoughts on which ones to pick?

You can see the smoke from my S in the video below...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SulQJvXq0RM

[Rocketman]

Just for clarification, you would want to drill holes in the baffle instead of punch holes. If you take the valve cover off, then turn it upside down to expose the baffle, punching holes will create a dozen little volcanoes (dents) in your valve cover when you turn it right side up again. That will not solve your drainage problem. You need to drill holes so there are no high spots on the inside surface when installed.

[RavynX]

Just for clarification, you would want to drill holes in the baffle instead of punch holes. If you take the valve cover off, then turn it upside down to expose the baffle, punching holes will create a dozen little volcanoes (dents) in your valve cover when you turn it right side up again. That will not solve your drainage problem. You need to drill holes so there are no high spots on the inside surface when installed.

I guess I had a different idea of "punching". I was talking about punching a neat hole via a press or something like that, not like stabbing a screwdriver through it. :D :D I definitely see what you mean though.

[repiv]

1) Install an oil catch-can.
2) Modify the AP1 valve cover baffling. (punch holes cleanly through in it to allow oil to drain)
3) Install KrankVents

1. A catch can system that is "closed" (retains manifold vacuum to draw out vapours) will resolve most* of the problem and still allow effective crankcase venting. Just make sure you use good thick walled hose that won't collapse under heat and high vacuum. Some kits come with hose that is inadequate for the job.

2. Putting holes in the baffling is also a very effective way to reduce or eliminate pooling of oil near the PCV and front breather holes.

3. Krankvents are just very strong PCV valves and were initially more useful for Forced Induction to prevent boost pressure from going past the OEM PCV valve. They are still somewhat useful on a NA car, but may be superfluous if the first 2 options are taken. If you want to go this route, get a PCV valve from the last generation of Toyota Supra. These are a fraction of the cost of a KV and works just as well.

The least invasive and least amount of work would be 1 and 3. Leave option 2 till last after you find out how the others work.

*An open system catch can will likely eliminate the oil burning entirely, but this requires plugging the PCV line into the intake manifold and some people don't like this idea. Keep in mind that the front breather is stil an outlet for the crankcase pressure, so it's not like you will blow up the motor because of the fear of built up pressure. I would also advise running the front breather into the same open catch can and plugging the inlet the breather usually uses in the intake hose.

[Jasonoff]

3. Krankvents are just very strong PCV valves and were initially more useful for Forced Induction to prevent boost pressure from going past the OEM PCV valve. They are still somewhat useful on a NA car, but may be superfluous if the first 2 options are taken. If you want to go this route, get a PCV valve from the last generation of Toyota Supra. These are a fraction of the cost of a KV and works just as well.:think: on this one Dave.

I have a Toyota Supra PCV inline with the OE PCV. But this just prevents pressure from going TO the valve cover which can happen even in an NA car when you're constantly coming off the throttle quickly (track environment). Moreso in a bossted car for obvious reasons. The OE PCV is just too weak.

From what I understand of krankvents they just create negative pressure inside the valve cover to help improve valve sealing which has never really been proven to be a benifit from what I have read.

[repiv]

:think: on this one Dave.

I have a Toyota Supra PCV inline with the OE PCV. But this just prevents pressure from going TO the valve cover which can happen even in an NA car when you're constantly coming off the throttle quickly (track environment). Moreso in a bossted car for obvious reasons. The OE PCV is just too weak.

From what I understand of krankvents they just create negative pressure inside the valve cover to help improve valve sealing which has never really been proven to be a benifit from what I have read.
This is my understanding of it and I may stand corrected.
I think this is a misnomer. The KV can't "create" or not create pressure, negative or otherwise. It's just a high tech one way valve that allows crankcase pressure to escape and then allowing manifold vacuum to take its place momentarily when the throttle plate is opened again. The vacuum comes from the intake manifold (unless it's under boost conditions). Under high rpm engine braking (throttle plate closed), the intake manifold vacuum is at its greatest (in both NA and boosted engines). It's this vacuum that assists in drawing oil vapours through the PCV line. The KV stays shut longer till more pressure in the crankcase and more vacuum in the manifold is built up, which requires higher rpm in a NA engine.
In a FI engine, the OE PCV valve is a very weak valve when it's closed and boost pressure can get past it. The Supra and KV valves seat well when closed to prevent pressure from going into the valve cover. If you only use one KV, the front breather is still an opening through which any pressure or vacuum can escape. Unless you have some sort of control device on the front breather, too, no pressure or vacuum will exist for very long. Manifold vacuum is at its strongest when the throttle plate is closed at high rpm. This provides the most effective evacuation of pressure (and oil vapour) from under the valve cover.
Where the OE PCV valve allows small crankcase pressure and small manifold vacuum to let oil vapours escape, the KV and Supra valves require more pressure and more manifold vacuum before the vapours can escape. For a NA car on the track using a KV or Supra valve, smoking will only be controlled to a limited extent but will still happen because under track conditions, deceleration (engine braking) from high rpm is fairly typical. I think if you were to never do engine braking on the track, you wouldn't see that kind of smoke from our cars. Someone should try it. Where the car would normally smoke like crazy, the next time around, instead of engine braking, just throttle off and push in the clutch and only use the service brakes and see what the smoke is like.

[Coop]

I know that should you drill the holes or do anything that will leave pieces of metal in your valve cover, be sure you can do a very good cleaning of the valve cover before putting it back on.

I did this to my valve cover and have not had the smoke problem since, and there where times it was so bad, that it would cut out my engine and put on the check engine light.

[Jasonoff]

the next time around, instead of engine braking, just throttle off and push in the clutch and only use the service brakes and see what the smoke is like.I could give this a try the next time I'm at the DDT. :thumbup:
I know that should you drill the holes or do anything that will leave pieces of metal in your valve cover, be sure you can do a very good cleaning of the valve cover before putting it back on.

I did this to my valve cover and have not had the smoke problem since, and there where times it was so bad, that it would cut out my engine and put on the check engine light.You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of where you drilled the holes would you? Hole pattern, size etc?

I'm due for a valve adjustment. May as well do this as well.

[RavynX]

I know that should you drill the holes or do anything that will leave pieces of metal in your valve cover, be sure you can do a very good cleaning of the valve cover before putting it back on.

I did this to my valve cover and have not had the smoke problem since, and there where times it was so bad, that it would cut out my engine and put on the check engine light.

You didn't happen to take any pictures of this process did you? I'm wondering what the baffle looks like and how big were the holes that you drilled and where they were drilled at.

Thanks,
Chris

[Jasonoff]

You didn't happen to take any pictures of this process did you? I'm wondering what the baffle looks like and how big were the holes that you drilled and where they were drilled at.

Thanks,
ChrisToo slow :poke::D

[RavynX]

Too slow :poke::D

lol, put 'em up... put 'em upppppp.:boxing: :boxing3: :duel:

[Coop]

I could give this a try the next time I'm at the DDT. :thumbup:
You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of where you drilled the holes would you? Hole pattern, size etc?

I'm due for a valve adjustment. May as well do this as well.

I do not,

but I drilled 2 sets on the right side of the cover, across from the 2 different breather outlets.
I drilled a 5 hole cross pattern.

[RavynX]

I did a compression test for another thread but here are my spark plugs. The threads had oil on them I believe.

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo337/ravynxmiko/S2000/misc/sparkPlugs001.jpg

[repiv]

I did a compression test for another thread but here are my spark plugs. The threads had oil on them I believe.

http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo337/ravynxmiko/S2000/misc/sparkPlugs001.jpg

Those plugs look fairly typical of any normal plug that comes out of an S2000. The oil is from a bit of seapage from above and not from within the cylinder. The color of the tip even look quite normal. I don't see anything to worry about in this regard.

[RavynX]

They are still somewhat useful on a NA car, but may be superfluous if the first 2 options are taken. If you want to go this route, get a PCV valve from the last generation of Toyota Supra. These are a fraction of the cost of a KV and works just as well.
So I can just go to Autozone and ask for a 1995 Toyota Supra Twin Turbo PCV Valve and it will drop in place of the stock S2000 PCV?

[Jasonoff]

No you have to buy some more hardware to splice it in line. Let me find the howto thread for you.

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=142&t=513733

[RavynX]

No you have to buy some more hardware to splice it in line. Let me find the howto thread for you.

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=142&t=513733

Ah, thanks Jason. :)