Knocking Noise???

[MTBRACER801]

I have been looking through the site recently and have found a couple of people with problems like mine but not exactly similar.
My S is a 2003 with 72k miles.
This has only recently started happening, and is kinda intermittent. When running around town at about 35mph to 45mph. There is a loud knocking noise that runs with the engine (idle it is slow, reved up it is faster). On any other car I would immediately say it was the valves. I am not sure when the last time the timing belt was replaced or any major service was done as I have had the car for a month.
I also am wondering if synthetic oil is crucial to the performance of the car or is a convetional just as effective.
I am in love with my car and wont to fix any porblems with it before they cause any serious damage.

[ikidomari]

it could be the timing chain tensioner; those do have a tendancy to go out in our cars. there is a decent video i found on youtube that shows what a bad tensioner sounds like; just do a search for like "s2000 timing chain" or something like that. if that is the problem, it's an easy fix. you can get the part from honda for less than $100, and it's simple to swap out. i think there's actually a "how-to" on either this site or s2ki.com that covers the swap.

well, good luck. hope it's nothing more serious.

[repiv]

Our timing chain should never need changing. A few things can make the kind of sound you are experiencing. Timing chain tensioner, valves, serpentine belt tensioner or any of the bearings in the accessory pulley shafts.
I find it odd that it only does it at the speeds you mentioned, since you also say it's engine rpm dependent. Most of the sounds that I listed can be heard through a stethoscope. That will help you home in on what it might be.

As for oil, the S2000 can run quite well on either. So long as you use the proper viscosity oil, it should make no difference.

[twizted]

It could just be pinging...

[MTBRACER801]

I heard back from the the shop today and they said, the whole bottom end of the motor was torn up, chunks of metal in the oil. There was never any noise or smoke out the tail pipe so I personally am expecting foul play here. They said they could rebuild the bottom end with parts from Honda, but that runs 3k just for the parts. So I guess my next step is to start looking for new/ import motors. Any links or advice for someone who is highly disappointed

[bimdub]

really? Chunks of metal? yeah I would be very careful with that one....

[repiv]

Wow! You weren't kidding about a "knocking" sound. :cry: I had a Plymouth 318 V8 year ago that knocked when ever under the slightest load. The main bearings went. Had to rebuild the whole bottom end.
Good luck with it. Sounds almost like the engine was run very low on oil a few times in the past.

[MTBRACER801]

Wow. The repair shop said that I need a small block repair or something like that. Replace the crank pistons, and block, everything below the head. What all does this entail?

[repiv]

That's pretty much an engine rebuild less the head work. Might be better off finding a complete engine from a totalled car.

[PRS Mike]

My "knock" noise is after it's warm on restart... I was told the timing chain was slapping around inside. I've also been told it's dirty lifters.... My noise sounds w/ the revs, but again, warm startup's.... Any thoughts?? Thanks all!

AP1 - 2003

[repiv]

I think we've once again reached a point where our fears and paranoia is running wild. We all hear "noises" with this car. Ticks, rattles, knocks, tapping, rumbling, whining and the list goes on and on. We see someone's description of what they're going through and we start to worry it might be happening to our cars. We would be smart to take a step back and look at these sorts of things with some proper diagnostics.

MTB, before you take for granted that the shop is right and you need a new engine, what criteria did they use to come to this conclusion? Did they eliminate the usual stuff like timing chain tensioner, valvetrain noise, etc? This can easily be done with a stethoscope. Did they? A "big end" grenade that produces knocking won't sound like anything else. Wouldn't it be something if they tear the engine apart, only to find out that a really bad TCT caused the chain to run 1/2 a tooth behind or ahead?

And PRS: My "knock" noise is after it's warm on restart... I was told the timing chain was slapping around inside. I've also been told it's dirty lifters.... My noise sounds w/ the revs, but again, warm startup's.... Any thoughts?? Thanks all!

AP1 - 2003 It's possible you could have a TCT issue but then, you might not. Get someone to listen to it with a stethoscope who knows what it all means. DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU ARE TOLD!!! We DO NOT have lifters, so they CAN'T get dirty. :rolleyes: We DO have injectors that very possibly, when they get hot and your fuel tank is low, can make quite a racket. It could be just about ANYTHING. Do the diagnostics. The you'll know what you've got. You haven't given any details on your car like what kind of oil you use. What kind of filter. What is the oil change interval. If, for example, you dealer (or someone) accidentally put in 5W20 like they put into all other Hondas, then you "could" get a nasty rattling when the oil gets too thin to work when it gets too hot, especially if the level is low.

[MTBRACER801]

The shop said that there was huge chunks of metal in the oil, and when they took the bottom end apart, they said that the crank was really messed up and that the walls were scratched. The metal had come from a piston ring that broke.
I have since taken it to another shop. When I described the problem to the next shop which, specializes in higher performance cars, they said that the original problem was probably what the last shop fixed. They confirmed my suspicions that the car was probably fix and then jerked around with at the last shop.
So I guess since I am getting new internals to my engine, I will have to break it in again. I know there is controversy in how to break in normal engines, which is why I am wondering how you should break in a F20c.

[repiv]

The shop said that there was huge chunks of metal in the oil, and when they took the bottom end apart, they said that the crank was really messed up and that the walls were scratched. The metal had come from a piston ring that broke.
I have since taken it to another shop. When I described the problem to the next shop which, specializes in higher performance cars, they said that the original problem was probably what the last shop fixed. They confirmed my suspicions that the car was probably fix and then jerked around with at the last shop.
So I guess since I am getting new internals to my engine, I will have to break it in again. I know there is controversy in how to break in normal engines, which is why I am wondering how you should break in a F20c.

Sorry to hear this. Looks like you've got your confirmation. These engines are pretty bulletproof except for the fact that most AP1s normally consume a lot of oil. I'm thinking that somewhere along the way, someone ran it too low. That is the most likely cause of needing engine work in the first place. Compound that with shops that may not know how to work on this motor and some poor Joe down the road gets a real nightmare.
That's the riskiest part of buying any used high performance car ....... Not knowing the complete history and not knowing how it was treated before.
Good luck.

Break in when you get it rebuilt will be just like if the engine was new. Take it easy and keep it under 5000 rpm for the first 600 miles, then add a couple more thousand rpm and little heavier throttle for each additional couple hundred miles till you can redline it. That's what Honda recommended. After you put about 2000 miles on it, change the oil. Then there's those who will tell you to drive the crap out of it right from the start. But then, maybe that's what happened to your car originally. Who do you want to believe? Honda or a bunch of guys who don't keep their cars long enough to see what they've done to it.

PS. Don't worry about what some guys will tell you about the "special" break in oil that Honda put in the engine. Honda has confirmed that there is no such thing. After an engine rebuild, you will have the same concentration of molybdenum circulating in the oil as what came from the Honda factory. The moly comes from the assembly lube they use to put the engine together and NOT from any additive they put into the oil. It doesn't do much beyond the 2 minutes after the initial start. Make sure it's a good brand name 10W30 oil with a good filter. Go with the OEM filter if in doubt. Synthetic or not, that is your choice, but keep track of the oil consumption for the first 10,000 miles and don't let it get near the "add" mark. Non-synthetic will likely help the break in happen a bit quicker.

[PRS Mike]

Thanks guys for the right direction... I've noticed that it does (my particular noise) get MUCH more quiet if not goes away all together when the oil is first changed. Again, I wish there was a way to put real soundbytes up for post so you could hear what an awful noise it is. When it sits/ cold start/ etc... sounds fine! Warm/ hot starts...like a vibra-slap type thing going on. (to all you non-musicians, the thing in the intro of the studio version of "Crazy Train") ...Thanks again all!