Clutch engagement point question

[Dizings2k]

The clutch engagement point seems very very high. I only have to push the pedal down about an inch and a half and I able starting to disengage the clutch.

Is that normal?

I have been getting 2nd gear grinds off and on in the cold ( 10degrees) weather mornings here. Once I drive her around (30 mins) the grinding goes away but I still feel some gears engaging in the stick. After further driving it eventually is smooth as butter.

I read on the "other" site about a clutch pedal adjustment.

My clutch pedal has about one inch of free slack that can be pushed until it starts actually working the clutch. I read that should be about 3mm.

Is this something I should check out/be worried about?

Thanks!
-Dustin

[Skakum]

Since day 1, my cluth has always engaged about 3/4 of the travel path out. I literally don't floor my clutch because it engages so late in the path. I have some friends that had some high performance one's installed that engage just mm off of the floor as well... I'm assuming it's just preference? I haven't had any issues with the clutch within the 3 years of having my S either. I am running the stock clutch.

I never had problems with grinding which could be an issue with the clutch or other various componenets.

[Rocketman]

I suggest changing the clutch and tranny fluids and see if the feel improves. It sounds like your clutch rod has already been adjusted, so you might be looking at a new clutch if it has worn down much more. How many miles on the car? Do you know the car's history? Mr. xviper will want facts...

[Dizings2k]

80,000 miles on the car.

Im not sure if the clutch rod has been adjusted or not...

[Rocketman]

80,000 miles on the car.

Im not sure if the clutch rod has been adjusted or not...
Couldn't hurt to try. The adjustment procedure is in the last picture and caption in the first post of Dave's master cylinder how-to thread: http://forums.s2kca.com/showthread.php?t=15696

[repiv]

The clutch engagement point seems very very high. I only have to push the pedal down about an inch and a half and I able starting to disengage the clutch.

Is that normal?

I have been getting 2nd gear grinds off and on in the cold ( 10degrees) weather mornings here. Once I drive her around (30 mins) the grinding goes away but I still feel some gears engaging in the stick. After further driving it eventually is smooth as butter.

I read on the "other" site about a clutch pedal adjustment.

My clutch pedal has about one inch of free slack that can be pushed until it starts actually working the clutch. I read that should be about 3mm.

Is this something I should check out/be worried about?

Thanks!
-Dustin

There are several points of interest in your post that I wish to highlight (in red). But before we get too far into it, you need to check the fluid level in the clutch reservoir. If it's too low, you could have drawn air into the system. Then you have to find out why it's too low. Is the master cylinder leaking? Check under the dash to see if there is wetness coming out of where the pedal plunger goes into the firewall assembly. This may give you your answer immediately.
With 80K miles on the car, do you know if you are running the original clutch? How about clutch and tranny fluid maintenance? Typically, with that kind of mileage on an original clutch, you are concerned about slippage due to worn clutch surfaces. Slippage is the opposite (in this context) of clutch drag, which would contribute to grinding gear changes and notchy gear changes. However, that is but only one part of the equation. The other part has to do with the transmission itself. This is where the fluid maintenance question comes in. Our trannies seem to "use up" tranny fluid quite quickly for a multitude of reasons. Where other vehicles can get away with the same old fluid in there for 100K, 200K miles without even a hiccup, our cars seem to need fresh fluid every 20K or 30K.
Anyway, back to the clutch .............................
The clutch action should have some play both at the bottom (near the floor) and at the top. As the fluid gets old and sucks up more water and air, it becomes more and more difficult to completely disengage the clutch. Then play at the bottom begins to disappear. This would seem to be your problem initially. However, judging by what you have said (1" to 1.5" of free play on each end of the pedal), this would indicate that the pedal action is not too far off from what they ought to be. However, your description is a bit confusing and I'm making assumptions that you mean you have 1" of play from the floor before the clutch begins to grab and 1.5" at the top where it's finished engaging and there is no more clutch action. Typically, we should have about 1" to 1.5" at the bottom, with a similar amount at the top. You may have heard about 3mm from somewhere, but you heard wrong. 3mm is not a good amount of free play for any street car.
I would suggest you don't touch the pedal settings for now. It may not be at fault and in messing with it, you'll only aggravate the situation and not attend to what's really in need, that being a complete fluid replacement of both the clutch and the tranny.
Following that, if the free play in the pedal is correct and the problems persist, then I would suggest that there is something amiss with the transmission itself. Perhaps some syncro teeth have been rounded off or some of the shift linkage has been bent or worn badly.
Nevertheless, adjusting that pedal rod is the last thing you want to do. It's something that is done to delay the clutch job just a bit longer when funds are short. Once the clutch has been replaced, then the rod has to be adjusted back. It can sometimes be used as a diagnostic tool.

[Dizings2k]

Just wanted to follow up:

I changed the transmission fluid and clutch fluid.

the clutch now engages firmer and smoother if that makes sense.

The engagement point has stayed the same, more in the last 85% of the pedal moving away from the floor.

The transmission is a totally different animal. I still get the notchy second gear on the first start up of the day. It does not grind anymore.

After I shift through all the gears say 3-5 times, the transmission is smooth as butter.

My clutch fluid reservoir was not low however, the fluid was completely black.

Thanks again!!

[Skakum]

Just wanted to follow up:

I changed the transmission fluid and clutch fluid.

the clutch now engages firmer and smoother if that makes sense.

The engagement point has stayed the same, more in the last 85% of the pedal moving away from the floor.

The transmission is a totally different animal. I still get the notchy second gear on the first start up of the day. It does not grind anymore.

After I shift through all the gears say 3-5 times, the transmission is smooth as butter.

My clutch fluid reservoir was not low however, the fluid was completely black.

Thanks again!!

Mine has always been like that. Repiv has a write up here on How To's for the CMC which also tells you how to change then engagement point.

I personally prefer the latter engagement point. TomAuto and I went and test drove a 370z and that was literally 1/4" off the floor engagement point... There's no way I could DD with that engagement point, I'm too lazy now! lol... Needless to say he (Tom) stalled it because he wasn't used to it either! :rofl:

[repiv]

You haven't mentioned how long you have owned the car. It is possible that a previous owner messed with the rod adjustment. As long as you can be sure that your clutch fluid bleed was done correctly and that your clutch is not abnormally worn, now might be the time to do the pedal rod adjustment.

[Dizings2k]

I have owned the car about 1.5 months.

How do I verify that my clutch is not worn??

I have done the "4th gear up steep hill at 20mph floor it" test.. It did not slip. It has never slipped during hard acceleration through any gear or with hard/fast shifts either...

[repiv]

You have done the required test to see if it slips and you say it does not. However, a clutch can be worn to the point where the material remaining can cause clutch drag. This, you can't tell unless the tranny is off and you can actually do a visual on the clutch parts. For the time being, just assume this is not the case and look into adjusting that rod. Owning it for only 1.5 months is very difficult to know what has been done to it previously on a car of that age. We have seen so many times that people go and adjust that rod before they do any other diagnostics and end up with a terribly misadjusted clutch pedal rod, leaving the next guy in bad shape no matter what he does.
Before doing the rod adjustment, make sure you are fully depressing the clutch when you shift. Ensure there is no bunched up carpet under the pedal and try moving the seat forward a couple of notches so there is no doubt that you can push the pedal completely to the floor. If the situation continues after that, then adjust the rod one full turn at a time. If your clutch is not fully disengaging, then you need to make the rod "longer". Turn the rod accordingly so that it pushes on the plunger more.