Burning Oil

[ErnestE]

Does anyone know that the S2000 is known to burn oil. I change my oil every 2500 miles and i have 6000 miles when i changed my oil and then i drove 175 miles and I burnt 3/4 of a quart of oil. I just wanted to know if the S2000 burns oil.

[rstark]

Yes, the S2000 "consumes" oil. There's a statement in your owner's manual that recommends checking the oil level every time you put in gas. Do *not* let the oil level go unchecked for a long period of time. Engines have known to sieze due to drastically low oil levels.

[ErnestE]

hey how are you. I just wanted to let you know that I have the vehicle under warrenty and that i m currently doing an oil comsumption test on the car. You really believe that this vehicle burns oil? I don't understand though it's a new car. I really do believe that it's a defect in the car because i have the year 2002 and my father is a mechanic and the compression in the car is 11:1 1/2 and now that they are coming out with the 2003 the compression in the engine is 11:1 they decreased it by 1/2 assuming that would decrease or elimate the oil comsumption. please if you got any real solid evidence tell me because i am so depressed about this. Another thing to i have the general manager and other service techs telling me that it's not suppose to burn oil and i really don't know what to do. Please help me.

[rstark]

Pretty much all S2000's consume oil. Some are lucky enough that it doesn't use a drop. Most are not that lucky. I've found that in the first 3500 miles of my car, it used almost two quarts of oil. Now that I'm at almost 12,000 miles, consumption has dramatically decreased to probably less than a quart for 3000 miles. The majority of owners where I live all have oil consumption issues too.

I don't know what the explanation is for the consumption, but this is Honda's first high reving engine (9000 rpms from the factory) and it does eat oil. Hopefully someone will chime in with a better explanation.

Your consumption rate seems a little high and is probably worth a trip to the dealer.

Oh yeah, ask the dealer to look up the service bulletin number 010200 for oil consumption.

[JWan]

Originally posted by rstark
Oh yeah, ask the dealer to look up the service bulletin number 010200 for oil consumption.

Rick has pretty much hit this one on the nose. The TSB basically states that this will indeed happen in the first couple thousand miles. Something about happening until the rings get fully seated...

[Madman]

I do not know if this will help but I have checked with a good friend of mine who is a Honda dealer overseas and he told me that Honda Europe has made AGIP 15W50 and 20W50 the standard oil for the S2000. and that Honda has issued a very specific break-in procedure to follow. These two things have eleminated or reduced oil consumption according to him. On the other hand 9000 rpm is race engine teritory and that is inevitable for some oil consumption. The M3 I just sold although I babied it still used 1 Qt every 1200 miles and that was 10w60 oil made for the M3 so it goes to show high performance engines do use some oil . It is all dependent on your driving habits, the way you broke your car in and the type and weight of oil you use.

[ErnestE]

madman i really broke in the vehicle nicely I followed the manual and it said don't go above 5500 rpm during the break in and I most I shifted was 4500 rpm and i also followed the shifting requirements you know 1-15 1st to 2nd. 16-25 2nd to 3rd etc...

As for the oil i used i used 10w30 and i change it every 2500 miles.

[drkeeling]

I have checked my oil every fill-up since I got the vehicle (MY02) 2 months ago. I have not noticed any oil consumption in 6300 miles. That being said, my dealer service center claimed that I had burned 1/3 qt at the time of my first oil change (3700 mi.). The interesting (and disconcerting) thing is that my dealer claimed there was NO break in procedure. I had to dig it out of the manual myself and, of course, I had red-lined a couple of times by then... temptation being what it is! Also, perhaps stupidly, I bought the demo vehicle as I had fallen in love with it, specifically, after the first test drive where I was encouraged to VTEC the engine! On top of all that... the car already had 130 miles on it, ostensibly, from the sales manager using it. Can you tell this is my first REAL sports car? Stupid mistakes but, so far, I have been lucky. I am really much more concerned about potential clutch problems given the previous "test drives". Oil consumption has been negligible and I am rapidly approaching my 2nd oil change. Is there some wood to knock on around here? Other than my head, of course! :D

[Madman]

I am not an expert but depending on where you live and what the climate is 10W30 may be too light and that is why you may be burning oil. What I would suggest that you find another dealer and just call and ask their service people if what you are seeing is normal.

[ErnestE]

rstark i went to the dealer and told them to look up that service bulletin and they didn't have that number. for some reason there system went straight to 0103....

[rstark]

Originally posted by ErnestE
rstark i went to the dealer and told them to look up that service bulletin and they didn't have that number. for some reason there system went straight to 0103....
Just have them look up service bulletins on the S2000, apparently there is one for oil consumption.

[Madman]

Maybe this has nothing to do with the oil burning issue but notice oil capacities 2002= 5.1 qts
2003= 5.9 qts.

Look at honda.com at the S2000 site and under specifications in the left hand corner you will get a complete list but when you look at EPA capcities crankcase is 5.9 and if you visit the 2002 specs which I have copies off it shows 5.1.

did they do a change or is it a typo???

[Greg Stevens]

Wow, Madman, interesting find! I am surprised by this! I wouldn't think it's a typo. I think it's a legit deal since there have been so many oil starvation-based engine failures. But I don't think this has to do with F20C's burning oil. I think this engine burns oil is due to a variety of things.

I think it's interesting to note, also, that of the 3 F20C's that I have had, none of them have burned much, if any, oil in the beginning. I think I added a quart in the second one, which I changed the oil at about 7000 miles. The one in my car now hasn't burned much, if any, either.

I don't think it's right to say ALL of them burn oil, but it seems to be something that many of them do. Is it something to worry about? Yes, it is...if you don't check it regularly! ;)

This motor also seems to be very sensitive to low oil problems, as well...it's not a bad habit to check it every fillup or every other fillup.

:)

[Madman]

I just called Customer service and got one of their girls who just reads from a flyer to tell me that since it is the same engine for 2002 and 2003 it will have the same capacity ( it is amazing that they have these people answering these lines) and she thanked me for bringing the error to their attention I will wait and see if it will change.I like you believe that they increased capacities. It will be interesting to just take a look at a 2003 owners manual. I have my 03 on order. I do not know if they have delieverd any 03's yet

[Greg Stevens]

Well, cool for checking into that...!

I had thought that along with a better oil pickup system and more oil that this might be the 'fix' for the starvation problems, but I guess not! I do think that the fix has otherwise taken place tho...I just don't recall the details. But I also thought that almost a full quart increase would a lot for such a small motor...

I don't think any 03's have been delievered yet, either. Should be in a matter of days though. I may wander by a dealer to check out the new ones, even though there are no significant changes. I'll try to check out a manual...you do the same!

:)

[Madman]

Will try, my dealer here says his first 03 S2000 will not show up till November/ December so if you get the info please share. I am anxious to know what my 03 capacity will be I think you are right on track by predicting that 1 Qt would solve the issue but again if you look at the M3 3.2 liter with 8000 rpm and 6 cyl engine having 6.9 qts and do the math per cyl. the s2000 comes out far better off in oil allocation per cyl I know that is not scientific but from a capacity stand point it just makes a little sense, but if dealers in your area get the 03's in soon I would appreciate it very much if you can check on this and report back

[Madman]

Ok I got the scoop from the service department out here Capacity irrespective of year is 5.1 qts but there is always .8 qts left in the system when you drain and change oil and filter so for engine overhaul they state capacity at 5.9 qts. I do not know if this guy is telling me a story or what but that was his explenation. He also informed me that there is no oil pick up problems with the S2000 and that for an engine this size oil is more than what is required.

[Legal Bill]

Erneste,

What ever happened to your oil consumption watch with the dealer? Did your car continue to burn oil?

[desmo4]

The 5.9 qt. vs 5.1 qt. is easy to explain. When the engine is brand new and dry, that is, never had any oil in it, it will take 5.9 qts. to fill it. At a normal oil change 5.1 is the correct value.

Jonathan

[Rowland]

The numbers you are all using are accurate. When you do oil changes the engine will infact take 5.1 qt with a filter change. The 5.9 comes to play if you do a major overhaul of the engine. After the dealer completed my #4 Cylindar repairs (Short block replacement) I went to my car and was checking it out. I decided to check the oil for the hell of it and discovered that the engine was low on oil. I immediately went inside and told the Service Manager who pulled the paper work and went to the car with me. Sure enough the technician only put 5 qt of oil in the engine.

The SM had the tech double check the oil and then made him look up the specs which were 5.9 for overhaul and 5.1 for a change with filter. The SM appologized and assured me it would not happen again.

My car was using a fair amount of oil before my #4 repairs. However, after my second breakin period the car settled down and does not use hardly any oil. My car now runs better then it did when I took it off the lot new. I was also given a 5 year Honda Care package by AHM to show that they would stand behind the car.

[rstark]

Well, at 15.7k miles, I thought my engine finally stopped consuming oil. Weekly checks showed no sign of oil loss. Then I changed my oil, and 1k later the engine consumed almost one quart of oil! :banghead: I was briefly happy that the oil consumption went away, but it just goes to show that even at 16.7k miles, my engine is still consuming oil :(

[Rowland]

Rick,
How much VTEC did you use? That will play into the picture too. Generally if I VTEC I do not consider it oil consumption, because it is a known fact that all VTEC engines use more when you are pushing the engine.

[rstark]

I usually VTEC daily which makes me do this :D I don't think I was pushing the engine harder than my usual routine.

[hej-s2000]

I've carefully measured the oil consumption twice on my '02 S2000 (with just over 12k miles on th odo). It consumes 1 qt. every 4600 miles, and I VTEC daily. That's a lot better than my previous car, a '93 Mazda RX7 (twin-turbo), which ended up getting only 300 miles per qt. (!) before I traded it in for the Honda...

[Rowland]

Originally posted by hej-s2000
I've carefully measured the oil consumption twice on my '92 S2000 (with just over 12k miles on th odo). It consumes 1 qt. every 4600 miles, and I VTEC daily. That's a lot better than my previous car, a '93 Mazda RX7 (twin- turbo), which ended up getting only 300 miles per qt. (!) before I traded it in for the Honda...

1992 S2000 :confused: :confused: :confused: hmmmm typo?

[Greg Stevens]

I'm thinking 02 instead of 92. But if you do have a 92 S2000, post some pics!

:lol3:

But hej, your 3rd gen 7 is one of my favorite cars...speed, beauty, power...great, great car. However, for those who may not know, this engine, as with other rotaries, uses oil as part of the combustion process...so it's not really a fair comparison with a standard internal combustion engine which doesn't use oil to aid in the combustion process.

Just thought I'd stick my big nose in here and clarify that...

:)

[leon]

I am curious about the oil consumption posts.......While I have never owned a car with this kind of engine, I owned a Honda many years ago that used a total of 1 quart of oil in over 200,000 trouble-free miles. I know this engine must run very hot. I would NEVER use dino oil and after the break-in, will use only high-end Synthetic....Mobil1, Amsoil, RedLine, or a few of the others......Mobil1 probably gets the nod, since it is available at WallyMart and Costco stores from coast to coast.
One fact that may go unnoticed is that dino oil will loose up to 10% by volume at high temperatures. The stuff just evaporates, leaving a thicker residue. If enough evaporates, you end up with 'ash'. With a crush of 11:1 and 91 octane, the best I can manage here in California, it is a recipe for a stressed cooling system and the reason for near 6 qt total oil capacity. Higher octane fuel may help....it burns cooler and slower than low octane, but that isn't a deal breaker. A proper synthetic has much less volatility and may lose only 5%.
I also suggest oil analysis on the used oil. Amazing what you can learn, and available for about 10$ (US) per sample........................

[AP1 Turbo]

A couple of things to keep in mind...

The F20C is the first of it's kind. What I mean by that is that there are so many completely new technologies used in the production of the F20C that you simply cannot compare it to any other engine out there even other Honda engines. The closest two engines to it in production now are the RSX and the new Accord. They are based on the F20C. The F20C uses forged rods and pistons coupled with cyls made from fiber reenforced walls. These things all need to "settle". This is pretty much as saying that the rings need to fully seat. The differences in the comsumption of oil on the the new cars is variable based on the way they are driven. There's a happy medium when breaking in a new engine between babying it and abusing it. Regardless, the engine in stock form can consume / burn up to 1 qt per 5000 miles and still be considered normal. More than that and I would look into it. As for checking the oil... every time you fill up spend the 2 minutes to do it. The oil indicator light won't come on until you're down about 4 quarts. That is a literal statement and NOT an exaggeration. Just some thoughts, sorry if I'm rambling.
-APT

[Glider Guider]

Having just passed 10,000 miles today, my particular experience was that the car used 2 quarts during breakin and has settled down to nearly no consumption. Factors could be volatility in the breakin oil and possibly needing more mileage than ordinary cars to fully seat the rings.

On the dealer's advice I waited until almost 7,000 miles for the first oil change. They had to convince me, normally I change about every 3,000 but they assured me that this was no ordinary engine and that running the breakin oil at least 6,000 miles was appropriate. During that time it used some oil & I addded 2 quarts of Valvoline 10W30.

I let the dealer do the first oil change. After some dialog about types of oil, I went with their choice for nonsynthetic oil, which turned out to be Chevron. I didn't check the oil level then, but assumed it would be full.

Some time later (maybe 1,500 miles) I checked it again, found that it was close to the add-oil mark, and started checking it frequently. It's been almost at the same place since then -- virtually no consumption.

It gets a few spurts of VTEC time daily, but nothing dramatic. Intuitively, my bet is that the biggest factor is that it takes a long time for the rings to seat, which might be the reason behind the dealer's fairly strong recommendation to keep the factory-fresh breakin oil for quite a while.

[leon]

I just passed the 1500 mile mark and have used about a pint of oil. At the next fill, I will add Valvoline 10-30. But I DO have a question.....
Just what the heck IS break-in oil? Thinner? More detergent? Less detergent? Thicker? I haven't heard of this in quite a while, since engines began being manufactured with NC tooling and very highly controlled tolerences. If break-in oil is just the first oil in an engine, I'll go with that. At what point can I change to a good synthetic? After the rings seat and oil consumption dies down would be my first guess, but maybe someone has some experience that would be helpful.
As kind of an aside, showing how far things have come, I have a friend with many American V-8 rebuilds to his credit who SWEARS by 50-50 RISLONE/regular oil for the first 300 miles! Anybody comes near my ride with Rislone has a problem coming..........leo................

[hecash]

I now have 70,000 miles (70K). I burned a main bearing at 20K, so this bottom end has 50K. Both bottom-ends used oil during the break-in period. I did not faithfully observe the break-in procedure but did not flagrantly ignore it either.

My car sees a fair amount of track time; I estimate that it will see more than 2,000 miles of track time this season.

It does use a little bit of oil after a day at the track. Otherwise, there is very little oil consumption.

[leon]

Has anyone ever sent an oil sample out to have it analyzed? This is a real good 'early warning' system......Heavy metals are bearings, (babbit alloy) and other bad stuff can show up, too................