Noise from the tranny! HELP!

[VinhPham]

I replace the left rear wheel bearing about a week ago and started noticing a high pitch noise from the car. So I jack it up and use a stethoscope to pin point the noice. I finally deternine that the noice was the the transmission. More specifically from the rear of the tranny.

I've aready grap the output shaft and try to see if it's got play in it. Nothing. I know some of the tranny have been reported to have bad bearings from the secondary shaft. I'm not sure if this is the case but it's definitely from the tranny

Here's my question: What else can I check to see if the bearing in the tranny is bad. If it is..can perform the service with the tranny in the car or would I have to remove it?

Some background on the vehicle: Second owner at 68K....It's at 141K miles now.
change the tranny fluid about 15 -20k miles ago. I'm changing it after work today again. Never clutch dump but ocasional gear grind and some spirited driving.

Side questions: Is it even worth considering a rebuild at 140K or this is my change to go with AP2 tranny? If so...could I switch out the secondary gear and put an AP2 secondary gear on it? Thanks in advance everybody

[repiv]

First of all, that's a fair amount of mileage, so bearings can be up for replacement. As far as the tranny is concerned, I was target the output shaft bearing as this one has been reported to go first. It can be accessed with the tranny on the car. You remove the propshaft and work on the bearing from under the car.
However, before you go ahead and send the car for repair. There's a couple of tests you can do to isolate that bearing. Understand that the engine can be separated from the tranny via the clutch. The tranny can be isolated (mostly) by putting into neutral. If the rear wheels are rolling down the road, the output shaft bearing turns. When you hear the noise, throw it into neutral and hold the clutch to the floor and see if the noise goes away. If it stays, it's probably that bearing. If it goes away, it's probably deeper in the tranny. If this is the case, you should be able to duplicate it by sitting still and revving in neutral, clutch up (engaged). Now, since you've been able to listen to it with a stethoscope, you obviously did this with the engine running, in neutral, clutch up. Now you need someone to push the clutch in while you're listening. If the noise stops, it's probably in the tranny. If it continues, it's upstream of the tranny.
If it turns out that you need to tear the tranny apart, you might do better to find a used AP2 tranny. You will appreciate the added low end grunt from the gearing. Compare the price of a repair vs replacement.

[VinhPham]

Perform the Test you suggested Repiv. There's the Result: With the car rolling about 30 mph with the cluch in and in neutral, I can still hear the noise. With the car jack up and engine on, I can only hear it if the wheel is spinning (gear and clutch engage). I cannot hear any noice if the clucth is push in or if its in neutral. No noice when the clutch is engage and tranny in neutral though.

Would the output shaft from the tranny have play if the bearing is bad? Because I tried wiggle it and there's no play.

[repiv]

Perform the Test you suggested Repiv. There's the Result: With the car rolling about 30 mph with the cluch in and in neutral, I can still hear the noise. With the car jack up and engine on, I can only hear it if the wheel is spinning (gear and clutch engage). I cannot hear any noice if the clucth is push in or if its in neutral. No noice when the clutch is engage and tranny in neutral though.

Would the output shaft from the tranny have play if the bearing is bad? Because I tried wiggle it and there's no play.

It sounds to me like you've got the occasionally reported bad output shaft bearing. The propshaft has to be turning to make the noise. Thus, it is likely that bearing since it turns with the rear wheels. A bad bearing can sometimes create some unusual play but not always. Wiggling the output flange won't necessarily show you any play since that flange may be well supported by the oil seal. You may not be able to see any play until you pull the flange and then wiggle the end of the output shaft. Even then, it may not show any play. That's why it's important to have it professionally diagnosed before you go to the trouble of changing that bearing. There's also a needle bearing a little further into the tranny from the output bearing. If it's that one, then the tranny has to come out and taken apart.

[VinhPham]

Do I need to remove the rear cover to get to the output shaft bearing? Or all I have to do is remove output companion flange and oil seal to be get to it?

[repiv]

Do I need to remove the rear cover to get to the output shaft bearing? Or all I have to do is remove output companion flange and oil seal to be get to it?

I've never done it, but it seems the output shaft (secondary shaft) is pressed into that bearing, so simply yanking it out may be extremely difficult. I'm afraid I may have misled you into thinking it could be done while the tranny is on the car. I got this notion from "Slows2k", who is an S2000 mechanic. He indicated once that this could be done with the tranny on the car. He may know something that I'm not aware of.

[VinhPham]

Once again, thanks repiv for your help. I finish the bearing replacement on the secondary shaft of the tranny on Friday and finally filled it with tranny oil yesterday and no strange winding noice from the tranny at all.

I Just want to confirm to anyone with similar problem that you can do this with the tranny still in the car. Just need to leave a jack under the tranny to support it when you take the secondary gear out.

Once again...thanks repiv!

VP

[repiv]

This is good to hear and your example can be added to the data of other similar problems. I take it that bearing was not hard to remove? The manual shows it being pressed in and if that's the case, like wheel bearings, would be hard to remove. It would seem by your experience, that it is not pressed in. Another good thing to know. Thanks for coming back to update us on this.

[VinhPham]

This is good to hear and your example can be added to the data of other similar problems. I take it that bearing was not hard to remove? The manual shows it being pressed in and if that's the case, like wheel bearings, would be hard to remove. It would seem by your experience, that it is not pressed in. Another good thing to know. Thanks for coming back to update us on this.

If the problem is the ball bearing then you actually don't need a press even though the manually said you do. I just use a rubber mallet and hit the shaft until it slides out...pretty easy after that.

But if the problem is like mine where the tapper bearing is bad, then you would actually need a press and a bearing separator to take it out.

BTW, if you can, order all the parts first before you start this fix as one of the longest thing to arrive was the hex nut that holds the companion flange on. It had to be shipped from outside the country and took like 5 business days to arrive.

[poolshark743]

The middle bearing on my output shaft went out, but while I was in there I just replaced them all anyway, total cost from Honda about $75 bucks, and it isn't that difficult.