How to improve steering feel?

[Doctor Mugen]

After seeing the STi thread, I started wondering again about an old question that used to be asked many times on s2ki back in the day (2000-2002).

How can you improve steering feel in the S2000 (via aftermarket modifications)?

I came from 2 cars that had excellent steering feel: e36 BMW M3 and NA6 Mazda Miata. My initial impressions for the S2000 was its numb steering feel compared to those 2 cars, but I made the jump anyway. I know back then, many M3 and Miata owners who had considered the jump decided not to for that sole reason. One comment back then was to throw some coilovers on the car. I did and it did help a bit, but it's still not as communicative as my old Miata or M3.

Dave, S2KCA-land, anyone know of any magic pill to make a great car even greater? :)

[My_yella_s2k]

Drive a miata or another car for 10 mins.... then drive the S :D

[billy bob]

I had this conversation with many people. Is there a way to pull out the electric steering and replace with rack and pinion???

[billy bob]

Drive a miata or another car for 10 mins.... then drive the S

That would only serve to highlight the steering inadequacies.....

[Chris S]

I had this conversation with many people. Is there a way to pull out the electric steering and replace with rack and pinion???

The S2000 already has rack and pinion steering, the electric just refers to the power assist mechanism.

My uneducated hunch is that perhaps a Miata hydraulic power assist retrofit would be worthy of investigating for feasibility.

[billy bob]

I did not know that. From the site:

the system consists of a toothed rack and pinion gear, with a microprocessor-controlled, coaxial electric motor assisting the rack. The microprocessor senses vehicle speed and steering torque and is programmed to vary boost accordingly, providing more boost at low speeds and progressively less at higher speeds. Failure warning, self-diagnosis and self-protection functions are built into the system. The S2000 has a steering ratio of 14.9:1.

Has anybody pulled off the the gear that connects the motor to the rack???

[billy bob]

Tom? Wanna pull the gear off and see what it feels like?

[Doctor Mugen]

Tom? Wanna pull the gear off and see what it feels like?

no thanks. 2 of my Hondas are down, I don't want to make it 3 :laugh:

[billy bob]

Your saying that pulling the connecting gear off will disable the car?

[repiv]

Going without power assist is not the answer. A car that weighs this much, with this few turns lock to lock, needs to have a bit of power assist. Even the Miata has a bit of that. If you want to see what it would be like with no power assist at all, just pull the EPS fuse. It'll be a bear to steer in the parking lot.
It's the amount of boost that Honda decided that most people wanted in the car and for the most part, only a very few have complained about it being too much. Personally, I think it's just right for me, but then, I've never driven a Miata or an M3. Nevertheless, I still feel every ridge I drive over and each one requires a slight correction on my part. For me, it's works to my satisfaction.
The steering gearbox motor is built right into the steering rack and would be somewhat difficult to strip it away from the rest of the assembly, not that you would want to go completely without some power assist anyway. The ability to boost the steering is "stored" and if depleted, requires about 8 minutes to "charge" it back up to full strength. You can deplete the stored boost by repeatedly doing "dry" steering. That's is, just sit there without rolling the tires, then steer back and forth. This is not advised as it will overheat the power steering motor and possibly ruin it. The resultant expense would not justify such a silly experiment. (PS. It is NEVER good to dry steer.)
Since many of the operational characteristics of the power boosting is programmed into the EPS chip in the control module, I think Honda could easily re-program it to act differently, but like the pre-06 S2000 ECUs, Honda doesn't want us having the ability to infiltrate those "secret" processes. I'm sure that a smart man, well versed in electric motors and electronics, could splice in a suitable resister in one of many sensitive spots (be it the torque sensor or the motor itself) to limit the amount of or alter the onset of boost to one's personal desires. That man would not be me. :p

[billy bob]

I guess the question really is, would the electric assist be to blame for the steering feel or just the mechanics of the steering setup itself?

[billy bob]

Oh, and if somebody pulls the EPS fuse, wont they still be fighting against non-powered up electric motor and not get the same feel as if it was mechanically disengaged?

[Chris S]

My old '90 CRX Si had wonderful steering feel, and I don't recall my '97 Prelude SH having bad steering feel, so my gut feel is that the electric assist is the culprit. IMO, it gives it a more digital feel vs. the analog feel of a good manual power assist (or unassisted steering).

[repiv]

I think the steering set up itself is just your typical rack and pinion, with it's own gear ratio built in, somewhat like the rear diff. The "feel" would be a result of the boosting characteristics.
Yes, if you just pull the EPS fuse, you would also be fighting the motor, or at least, the mechanism that couples it to the steering rack. Certainly not an ideal way to see what it would feel like without it.

[billy bob]

Ok, we have established Tom needs to physically disconnect the motor from the steering rack. :)
Is there any way to easily pull just the gear that makes the connection or back the motor out a little bit so its easy to put back in place?

[repiv]

Look at the following picture:

http://www.slhondaparts.com/images/PCI/14S2A0/007/9.jpg

The power steering unit is inside that large cylinder in part #17. As I said before, it's integrated into the steering rack itself. It's not something you can just pull away or remove.

[bimdub]

just throwing this out there......I read somewhere that a pro drifter modified his S2000 to use the RX7 (FD3) steering rack......something about not having the "variable ratio" made it easier to control......that would be where I would look......

[billy bob]

I see what you mean Dave. On race versions of the car, do they leave it in or replace with a straight shaft?

[repiv]

Don't know what's on race S2000s. :think:

[C G]

I'm one of the people that never liked the steering feel on the S2000's. For normal street driving I never really had a complaint. It only bothered me on the track at the limit.

Tom will really be spoiled once he drives his F3 on the track.

[Doctor Mugen]

Going without power assist is not the answer. A car that weighs this much, with this few turns lock to lock, needs to have a bit of power assist. Even the Miata has a bit of that. If you want to see what it would be like with no power assist at all, just pull the EPS fuse. It'll be a bear to steer in the parking lot.
It's the amount of boost that Honda decided that most people wanted in the car and for the most part, only a very few have complained about it being too much. Personally, I think it's just right for me, but then, I've never driven a Miata or an M3. Nevertheless, I still feel every ridge I drive over and each one requires a slight correction on my part. For me, it's works to my satisfaction.
The steering gearbox motor is built right into the steering rack and would be somewhat difficult to strip it away from the rest of the assembly, not that you would want to go completely without some power assist anyway. The ability to boost the steering is "stored" and if depleted, requires about 8 minutes to "charge" it back up to full strength. You can deplete the stored boost by repeatedly doing "dry" steering. That's is, just sit there without rolling the tires, then steer back and forth. This is not advised as it will overheat the power steering motor and possibly ruin it. The resultant expense would not justify such a silly experiment. (PS. It is NEVER good to dry steer.)
Since many of the operational characteristics of the power boosting is programmed into the EPS chip in the control module, I think Honda could easily re-program it to act differently, but like the pre-06 S2000 ECUs, Honda doesn't want us having the ability to infiltrate those "secret" processes. I'm sure that a smart man, well versed in electric motors and electronics, could splice in a suitable resister in one of many sensitive spots (be it the torque sensor or the motor itself) to limit the amount of or alter the onset of boost to one's personal desires. That man would not be me. :p

Thanks for the answer. I guess no magic beans for the S2000 then :(

[billy bob]

Thanks for the answer. I guess no magic beans for the S2000 then
Well, unless somebody comes out with a cool reflash for the ECU that lets you reprogram the power steering settings.....

[johnnnyjeans]

How about the CR stiffner?

http://hardtopguy.com/store/product.php?productid=713&cat=193&page=2

anyone nkow how to do it?

Not sure if the ratio has anything to do with it but would this really make it stiffer or just the stiffening of the chasis make the car stiffer?:think:

[repiv]

How about the CR stiffner?

http://hardtopguy.com/store/product.php?productid=713&cat=193&page=2

anyone nkow how to do it?

Not sure if the ratio has anything to do with it but would this really make it stiffer or just the stiffening of the chasis make the car stiffer?:think:

That looks like a bunch of heavier nuts and bolts and brackets to hold the rack more solidly in place. I don't think that changes the ratio or the amount of boost.
I'm just guessing here, so wait for someone who has actually installed this to report in. Or you can contact HTguy and ask him.

[Timber]

It was my understanding that one of the benefits of the UK alignment was better steering feel. Maybe just some experimenting with alignment will get you what you want.

[drobbins]

How can you improve steering feel in the S2000 (via aftermarket modifications)?


I would recommend:

1) Swift sway bars (front and rear) - will make steering stiffer at lower speeds so the front end doesn't feel so jumpy. I have the swift bars on my car right now and that's one of the things they do. In addition, I recommend and am planning to get:

2) Whiteline/Muz front underbody brace - should stiffen up the front end
3) Front Strut Tower Bar

That should go a long way towards taking the steering feel to the next level.

-Daniel

[Doctor Mugen]

I would recommend:

1) Swift sway bars (front and rear) - will make steering stiffer at lower speeds so the front end doesn't feel so jumpy. I have the swift bars on my car right now and that's one of the things they do. In addition, I recommend and am planning to get:

2) Whiteline/Muz front underbody brace - should stiffen up the front end
3) Front Strut Tower Bar

That should go a long way towards taking the steering feel to the next level.

-Daniel

thanks. Yeah, I already have Mugen swaybars, Mugen coilovers, and did have an ASM GT-tower bar at one time. And those things did help, but I think short of jumping into another car, it'll be difficult to further beef-up steering feel.

[edison_GTI]

I had a quick read so keep that in mind. Does the steering electronic module allows you to change the amount of electrical steering assist? I ask the question because my '06 VW GTI allows me to do so, when I connect the VW diagnostic tool. The steering assisting goes from 1 - 9, where 1 is none and 9 is max.

[repiv]

I had a quick read so keep that in mind. Does the steering electronic module allows you to change the amount of electrical steering assist? I ask the question because my '06 VW GTI allows me to do so, when I connect the VW diagnostic tool. The steering assisting goes from 1 - 9, where 1 is none and 9 is max.

No, nothing can be altered in the EPS (electronically).

[drobbins]

thanks. Yeah, I already have Mugen swaybars, Mugen coilovers, and did have an ASM GT-tower bar at one time. And those things did help, but I think short of jumping into another car, it'll be difficult to further beef-up steering feel.

I would go with a Whiteline front underbody brace and I think it will make a much bigger difference than the strut tower bar. Have you ever tried an underbody or x-brace on the car?

Underbody bracing generally makes a very big improvement in FEEL.

-Daniel

[Chris S]

I had the UK alignment, Spoon X-brace, and Koni/GC coilovers. All helped the handling quite a bit, but didn't do much for steering feel. IMO, the EPS mutes the transmission of information from the road surface to your hands, and I believe you need to chunk it completely to come anywhere near Porsche or Lotus levels of steering feel.

[Doctor Mugen]

I would go with a Whiteline front underbody brace and I think it will make a much bigger difference than the strut tower bar. Have you ever tried an underbody or x-brace on the car?

Underbody bracing generally makes a very big improvement in FEEL.

-Daniel

I guess that'll be on my list then :)

[drobbins]

I had the UK alignment, Spoon X-brace, and Koni/GC coilovers. All helped the handling quite a bit, but didn't do much for steering feel. IMO, the EPS mutes the transmission of information from the road surface to your hands, and I believe you need to chunk it completely to come anywhere near Porsche or Lotus levels of steering feel.

Well, I guess it depends on what you mean by "feel". Reinforcing the chassis can reduce chassis flex which means that you will feel less from the chassis and thus more from the steering wheel and suspension. It won't necessarily give you MORE feel but will let you tune in better to what the steering wheel and suspension are currently telling you.

Good thing to try before messing with the steering of the car, I think.

[Chris S]

True, but the S2000 has one of the stiffest chassis around - flex is neither a weakness nor the cause of the steering feel issues.

[drobbins]

True, but the S2000 has one of the stiffest chassis around - flex is neither a weakness nor the cause of the steering feel issues.

I agree, the S2000 chassis is quite excellent BUT it is not perfect - it's still a convertible and it has its weak points that can benefit from additional reinforcement.

Some reinforcement front to rear on the bottom and around the area of the soft top should make a difference. Seems to be confirmed by the CR having some additional bracing added in the soft top area. Honda wouldn't spend the money to add extra bracing if it didn't make a difference, right?

Same with the CR steering rack stiffeners - I'd recommend looking into those as stronger bolts could potentially reduce feel-destroying flex in the system - I assume they call them "stiffeners" for a reason. That is an assumption, but I think a fair one to make.

I don't know if that will address Doctor Mugen's particular concerns but I do expect that they would improve the feel of the car - handling and steering feel - quite a bit.

If Dr. Mugen is looking for improving steering feel with aftermarket parts, that's all I can think of. Beyond that, we would need a new aftermarket part :) Maybe Dr. Mugen can convince PuddyDad to mess with the steering a bit :)

[Chris S]

The CR's bracing is oriented to help it out for track use, driven hard.

Here's the deal - I can feel a huge difference in steering feel backing out of my driveway, cruising through a parking lot, or driving through my neighborhood - you don't have to stress the chassis to feel it.

Ask Kraemer, he recently drove my car and s/b able to speak to the differences as well.

[centralcoastbuc]

I agree, the S2000 chassis is quite excellent BUT it is not perfect - it's still a convertible and it has its weak points that can benefit from additional reinforcement.

Some reinforcement front to rear on the bottom and around the area of the soft top should make a difference. Seems to be confirmed by the CR having some additional bracing added in the soft top area. Honda wouldn't spend the money to add extra bracing if it didn't make a difference, right?

Same with the CR steering rack stiffeners - I'd recommend looking into those as stronger bolts could potentially reduce feel-destroying flex in the system - I assume they call them "stiffeners" for a reason. That is an assumption, but I think a fair one to make.

I don't know if that will address Doctor Mugen's particular concerns but I do expect that they would improve the feel of the car - handling and steering feel - quite a bit.

If Dr. Mugen is looking for improving steering feel with aftermarket parts, that's all I can think of. Beyond that, we would need a new aftermarket part :) Maybe Dr. Mugen can convince PuddyDad to mess with the steering a bit :)

I have seen warnings from Honda that the CR rack stiffeners are not to be used with AP2s. Don't know why though.

[drobbins]

The CR's bracing is oriented to help it out for track use, driven hard.

Here's the deal - I can feel a huge difference in steering feel backing out of my driveway, cruising through a parking lot, or driving through my neighborhood - you don't have to stress the chassis to feel it.

Ask Kraemer, he recently drove my car and s/b able to speak to the differences as well.

I could feel the improvements from chassis bracing on my MX-5 when I pulled out of my driveway, cruised through a parking lot, or drove through my neighborhood, and the difference in feel was pretty dramatic.

So I disagree with your assertion that you need to stress the chassis (ie do nasty things with your car) to feel an improvement with chassis bracing. Chassis bracing is actually most useful in around-town daily driving. Consider that vibration is a kind of transient "micro-flex". Bolting some solid aluminum bars to the bottom of the car has the effect of reducing the transmission of vibration as well as improving overall rigidity.

As for your next (somewhat unrelated) point - yes, a Cayman S does feel different than an S2000. A Cayman is also significantly more rigid than an S2000, since it has a real roof. Get in a Boxster S and you will also feel a significant difference from your Cayman S and things will feel mushier.

Please note, I am not disagreeing with the fact that there are differences in the steering system of the S2000 and your Cayman S, there obviously are. And at the end of the day, you may be right, what Dr. Mugen is feeling may very well be due to the design of the S2000's steering system. My points are that 1) chassis bracing is good for non-crazy people and 2) the S2000 and Cayman S are different - Porsche is an expert on feel and are considered by many to be the authority on what a sports car *should* feel like - and they have probably done quite a lot of things - not just one thing - to get that particular steering feel that you have in your Cayman. I imagine that the front suspension design/bushings, engine location, etc. are a significant contributor as well. Everything makes a difference.

[billy bob]

I don't like to complain to loudly about S2000 shortcomings because the hardcore S2000 lovers get all pissed off. I don't think its related in any way to the chassis. The S2000 chassis is just dyn-O-mite. I have driven Corvette, M3, S2000, Cayman, you name it, and the S2k chassis stands tall among giants. If only the steering feel was better.....

[drobbins]

I don't like to complain to loudly about S2000 shortcomings because the hardcore S2000 lovers get all pissed off. I don't think its related in any way to the chassis. The S2000 chassis is just dyn-O-mite. I have driven Corvette, M3, S2000, Cayman, you name it, and the S2k chassis stands tall among giants. If only the steering feel was better.....

I think we should try to convince S2KPuddyDad to look into it :)

[Goku]

I read through most of the post. Did anyone even talk abou tires? They will be much easier to replace than messing with the steering rack.

[Doctor Mugen]

I don't like to complain to loudly about S2000 shortcomings because the hardcore S2000 lovers get all pissed off. I don't think its related in any way to the chassis. The S2000 chassis is just dyn-O-mite. I have driven Corvette, M3, S2000, Cayman, you name it, and the S2k chassis stands tall among giants. If only the steering feel was better.....

please, we all love your whining :rofl:

I have good tires and some suspension goodies. suspension braces i'm sure would help a bit, but I don't know if it'll lead to steering feel that's on-par with an Elise or an older M3? But i guess my question was more directed towards the steering rack and to see if anything has been done yet (guess not so far).

I think awhile back, somebody mentioned that improved bushings might help. Thoughts?

[corey_dyck]

Steering feedback comes from caster. Adding caster will net you 10 times the feel that any bracing can. The problem is that you have to give up camber to get more caster. If you don't have issues with outside tire wear on the front tires, this is a very good solution. i.e. if you drive mostly on the street and don't care about laptimes, this is a the cheapest way you can get more steering feel. The more you move the rear control arm cam out (away from centerline of car) and the more you move the front one in, the more caster you can get as you drive the lower balljoint forward. But, you sacrifice negative camber. This also massively messes up your toe-in/out so make sure to correct that too.

There's likely an electronic way to fool the power steering torque sensor into thinking that the driver isn't turning the wheel as hard - this would fool the system into providing less assist. A darn good read on how hydraulic power steering works: http://www.woodwardsteering.com/Cat05/Cat05%20PDF%2080-99.pdf Start at page 7 of the PDF, point 13.

In a traditional hydraulic system you can change the stiffness of the torsion bar to change the amount of power assist. If the S2000 torsion sensor simply changes resistance with torsion, appropriate resistors either in-line or bridging around the sensor can change the amount of assist. If it's a digital sensor then something pretty fancy would be needed.

I really don't know enough about the system to do this electronic fix, nor can I as I autocross in Stock class. :( I sure would love to though if the rules allowed it!

+1 for the amazing Miata steering feel, even with power steering. It's one of the few things I really miss about my Miata for autocross.

[johnnnyjeans]

I have seen warnings from Honda that the CR rack stiffeners are not to be used with AP2s. Don't know why though.


Really/??!!! where did you find this? Cause i was considering it from hardtop guy.

[Chris S]

What does the S2000 have in common w/ Honda's ATV line?

That's right, electric power steering!
http://powersports.honda.com/2009models/#/electic-power-steering

They sure did right w/ the '09 CRF450, though - it's almost tempting me to break my allegiance to the KTM kult.

[Doctor Mugen]

They sure did right w/ the '09 CRF450, though - it's almost tempting me to break my allegiance to the KTM kult.

wow, it's like me buying Nismo stuff instead :rofl:

[centralcoastbuc]

Really/??!!! where did you find this? Cause i was considering it from hardtop guy.

about 1/2 way down this page is the quote.

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=595731&st=0&#entry13374718

[drobbins]

Steering feedback comes from caster. Adding caster will net you 10 times the feel that any bracing can. The problem is that you have to give up camber to get more caster. If you don't have issues with outside tire wear on the front tires, this is a very good solution. i.e. if you drive mostly on the street and don't care about laptimes, this is a the cheapest way you can get more steering feel. The more you move the rear control arm cam out (away from centerline of car) and the more you move the front one in, the more caster you can get as you drive the lower balljoint forward. But, you sacrifice negative camber. This also massively messes up your toe-in/out so make sure to correct that too.

OK, I would normally agree with you, but doesn't the S2000 come with 6 degrees of caster from the factory, up to a max of 6.45 degrees (minimum 5.15?)? So it is pretty maxxed out already isn't it? Or are you talking about going beyond six degrees somehow? Or going from 6 to 6.45?

I'm looking at the scan in this link: http://forums.s2kca.com/showthread.php?t=20365&highlight=caster

-Daniel

[VinhPham]

If I remember correctly, there's a forum here a while ago discussing about AP1 having the same steering ratio as the CR. Maybe the EPS module can be swap to see if it makes a difference. Just my 2cent.

[XLevel]

I haven't read the entire thread but, has anyone discussed the gusset plates for the from upper control arms? Spoon and J's Racing both offers these parts. They are weld-in but, from the video I've seen on Spoon's website when they were released, it looks like it would work great. The guy in the video moves the control arm mounts by hand with little force. Check this out... http://www.spoon.jp/dl/s2000_gasetEG.pdf

I found the video on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpPVzUtIGpU

[corey_dyck]

OK, I would normally agree with you, but doesn't the S2000 come with 6 degrees of caster from the factory, up to a max of 6.45 degrees (minimum 5.15?)? So it is pretty maxxed out already isn't it? Or are you talking about going beyond six degrees somehow? Or going from 6 to 6.45?

I'm looking at the scan in this link: http://forums.s2kca.com/showthread.php?t=20365&highlight=caster

-Daniel
That's a max recommended value from Honda, not the max that's possible with the car. They also suggest that you shouldn't run any more than 1 degree of negative camber, we all freely ignore that! :D

The higher you go with caster the better the steering feel because it takes more force to turn the wheels, power steering or not.

Ranking the changes - items near the top affect feel the most, items at the bottom affect it the least:
1. removing power steering
2. changing power steering characteristics (fooling the system somehow, like installing a stiffer torsion bar or electrical changes)
3. adding additional caster
4. different wheel offset (affects tire scrub radius)
5. wider tires
6. rack bracing
7. chassis bracing

Not 100% sure if #'s 4 and 5 should be reversed...

Most people are more likely to add parts rather than change alignments as it's cooler to tell your friends that you have XX parts than to say you got a good alignment or modified your power steering system. ;) There's nothing wrong with adding parts for the sake of adding parts, but be clear if your goal is adding parts or if it is changing/improving something.

[rioyellows2k]

CR Steering Stiffeners aren't about improving steering feel. With the CR's extra available Grip from the tires the CR's Suspension was modified to take advantage of the Tire's potential grip. The chassis brace was added to maximize the the suspension. The Stiffeners are there to deal with the extra load from the increased grip.

We've done a CR steering conversion on a AP2, and the steering feel was no different. The guy doesn't autocross so I didn't see the point. But at least I know it could be done.

[drobbins]

Dr Mugen, I just got my whiteline front underbody (x) brace installed and it has slightly tightened up (requires more strength in the arms!) steering at low speeds and at medium speeds when the steering wheel is turned significantly one way or another. The most major improvement, though, was a reduction in the "wobbly" feeling over road irregularities, and it makes the car feel much more stable and controlled at speed. You can feel what's going on with the front wheels much better.

So I was looking for other bracing options and came across this product, which claims to improve steering feel, so I thought I'd post:

http://www.gotuning.com/product_info.php?fPath=S2000_3&products_id=113

[FF2Skip]

As corey_dyck stated, alignment and tires are your easiest and most effective steps. What he failed to mention, however, is that camber-adjustment ball joints like the ones from SPC allow for both camber and caster adjustment. You can install them in such a way that(approx 40* angle) caster and camber can be altered. After installing my $170/set item, I had over 8* of caster. :D We ended up setting front camber at -3.5* and caster at 6.7. Rear adjustable ball joints were not needed for my application nor do they have any bearing on Tom's request.

Tires. How can this be overlooked? Sidewall strength plays a HUGE part in feel. If you're running crap tires like the popular Yoko ES100's(ES stands for extra slippery, btw), sidewall deflection/flex increases the time between steering input and actual turn-in. Obviously, the stifness of your suspension also plays a part in transmission of input.

All that said, I do not think any offered solution can address Tom's question. Steering feel is far different than feel of the car, i.e. the feeling of being planted, the feel of rigidity, etc. And yes, my wife's Miata is a hoot to drive. With only ToyoT1R's as a mod and on 10 yr old shocks/springs, there isn't enough power to get out of shape, yet I like the feel of it.

[FF2Skip]

I'm about to fit my S with a 330mm wheel. I don't anticipate any real change in steering feel, only a reduced need for steering input. For a street driven car, this would yield it unfit to pass inspection because of the removal of the airbag.

[stantaur]

After driving a car with the SPC adjustable ball joints and a little over seven degrees of caster (-2.7 deg neg camber), that car was a marked improvement over other AP1s and AP2s I've driven.

The trick is -- use the SPC ball joints to get the camber you need and then max the caster using the stock adjusters (equal caster on each side). The car tracks like a bullet train down the highway with great on-center feel. And when you turn the wheel (esp. with the AP1 / CR rack), it really likes to turn.

That said, it's not quite the same feel as my E36 M3 or the Elise, but it's a huge improvement over the dead on-center and limited road feel / friskiness of the stock AP1.

[FF2Skip]

For those that may be unaware, the more caster you have, the less static camber you will need to run. Caster increases dynamic camber in turns. Running less static camber should allow for better threshold braking because you have more of a contact patch.

I'm not entirely sure how much is "too much" with regards to caster and this car. I know Mustang guys use as much as they can get- upwards of 8+*.

[Gaby2010]

Steering Feel? Whats That??

[Sliver]

Just wanted to say 'great thread'. So, 'great thread'.

almost off topic: Anyone else remember the excellent on-center feel of the mk2 VW GTI?

[dlq04]

I was surprised to read Chris S say the UK specs didn't make an improvement. They certainly did for my car. The OEM caster was 6* on my AP1 and I changed that to 6.5*; the OEM camber was -0.5 and I changed that to -1.0. Those changes may not sound like much but they made a BIG difference. As for tires I changed the OEM S02's to REO1R's. Numb feel is no longer a concern for me but everyone's different.

[Bob A (SD)]

I'm with Dave. I finally got around to having UK specs dialed in this past Spring and have been kicking myself ever since for not doing it years earlier! It absolutely makes a positive difference.

Now I'm seriously looking at installing a Whiteline KSB706 "X-Brace" to augment the Whiteline 30mm front sway bar I already have. Mmmmmm.......

--Bob