into the den... car acting crazy!

[Alacrity]

Ok repiv, i've seen you work your magic before, help me out! I have a few problems, and i think they are all inter- related. My engine is un- modified except a fujita intake and magnaflow exaust. I have a rough time idling my car- i did some research and found your "Map Whack" thread and i'll do that tomorrow.

In addition, my s2 has this random quirk. It doesn't seem to be related to cold weather, or startup, or engine temp at all. Completely at random, (though only at low speeds,) my throttle inputs will go entirely unnoticed by the engine. I'll be pressing the gas, and the car will just idle away, then, if i press either long enough- say 5 seconds, or hard enough- to the floor, the car will jump ahead- sometimes screeching the tires.

If that isn't odd enough, when i mash the throttle, the problem goes away with nary a wink of my check engine light. But if i wait it out, my engine light comes on, and i get 5 codes. Cyl 1 misfire, cyl 2 misfire, cyl3 and cyl 4, and finally, an entire ignition system malfunction code.

here's the best part. the light goes off the next time i have the issue. so it alternates, on, off, on, off, every few days.

other than that, the car runs great with 130,000 miles on it!

so i'll whack my map, and maybe some magic will be worked between now and tomorrow on this very thread!

Thanks guys!

[yinlun]

My first instinct was DBW acting up..but then with your mileage I doubt you have DBW. So it's all cable..

Did you check the throttle cable? Have someone hit the gas and see if the cable/plate is moving. That was my second thought..

But then you say if you hold it down long enough it'll lurch. Sounds like you might be doing what your codes are saying - misfiring.

Check your spark plugs, see how they look.
While you're at it, check the ignition coils.

[joe_s2k]

I've had a problem with all 4 cylinders misfiring in the past and it ended up being bad fuel injectors.

Good luck. I'm sure Xviper will get you squared away.

[Jasonoff]

My guess it it's fuel related.

Toss up some details on the car. Year and Mileage.

Do you have any issues with getting back on the throttle while coasting and letting off the throttle as if the first little bit of movement of the pedal is not registered?

[repiv]

With these sorts of misfires and "on again, off again" symptoms, the MAP whack may only be the starting point. If you're going to do it, remove the MAP altogether, shove a rag into the TB opening and give a good spray of WD40 down the MAP hole. Catch it all in the rag. The exit is that tiny little hole on the side of the throttle body. Then blow compressed air down the hole to dry out the passageway. When you put the MAP back on use a zip tie (or similar) to hold the wiring harness onto the MAP sensor firmly. Now you've at least done all you can in that area.
The rest will be tedious and could be frustrating. Do like the others have already mentioned. Check the movement of the throttle plate when you operate the gas pedal. I doubt that's what's wrong, but it's a simple and quick test. Wouldn't be a bad idea to have the voltage checked in the throttle position sensor. (Make sure that harness is secure.
Have you ever had your injectors cleaned? It might be time. If you've never had it done, even with the simple small bottle of cleaner in the gas tank every once in a while, then you're going to have to either go for the really concentrated gas tank additive or have a shop perform the clean via the fuel rail. While you're at it, see if you can detect any abnormal ticking in any injector or no ticking at all. Check the fuel pressure if you can. With 130K, the fuel sock might be clogged badly or the fuel pump can be getting tired.
Next, how old are the spark plugs. When was the last time you inspected them? Might be time for a look or new plugs. The condition of the old plugs may be a good sign of what's going on.
Inspect each coil pack for condition and heat damage. How do they compare to each other. Are they all the same or does one or two look different? When you put them back, mix them up so they are in different positions.
How's the air filter?
If you've done all of the above and the situation doesn't change, the only other option is to try a known good ECU.

[yinlun]

With these sorts of misfires and "on again, off again" symptoms, the MAP whack may only be the starting point. If you're going to do it, remove the MAP altogether, shove a rag into the TB opening and give a good spray of WD40 down the MAP hole. Catch it all in the rag. The exit is that tiny little hole on the side of the throttle body. Then blow compressed air down the hole to dry out the passageway. When you put the MAP back on use a zip tie (or similar) to hold the wiring harness onto the MAP sensor firmly. Now you've at least done all you can in that area.
The rest will be tedious and could be frustrating. Do like the others have already mentioned. Check the movement of the throttle plate when you operate the gas pedal. I doubt that's what's wrong, but it's a simple and quick test. Wouldn't be a bad idea to have the voltage checked in the throttle position sensor. (Make sure that harness is secure.
Have you ever had your injectors cleaned? It might be time. If you've never had it done, even with the simple small bottle of cleaner in the gas tank every once in a while, then you're going to have to either go for the really concentrated gas tank additive or have a shop perform the clean via the fuel rail. While you're at it, see if you can detect any abnormal ticking in any injector or no ticking at all. Check the fuel pressure if you can. With 130K, the fuel sock might be clogged badly or the fuel pump can be getting tired.
Next, how old are the spark plugs. When was the last time you inspected them? Might be time for a look or new plugs. The condition of the old plugs may be a good sign of what's going on.
Inspect each coil pack for condition and heat damage. How do they compare to each other. Are they all the same or does one or two look different? When you put them back, mix them up so they are in different positions.
How's the air filter?
If you've done all of the above and the situation doesn't change, the only other option is to try a known good ECU.

Sweet, I was inline. I'm a repiv in training.

[Alacrity]

My guess it it's fuel related.

Toss up some details on the car. Year and Mileage.

Do you have any issues with getting back on the throttle while coasting and letting off the throttle as if the first little bit of movement of the pedal is not registered?


Year 2000, with 130,000 miles :rockon:

and no, the throttle response is crisp at speeds above 15 mph or so. it's only when i first get going that this problem presents itself.

My spark plugs are iridium bosch plugs and are fairly new- maybe 10,000 miles old.

My car has never had the injectors cleaned, I think I'll do that regardless if that's the source of the problem or not. Do you recommend some injector cleaner in the gas tank or an auto shop with a fuel rail cleaner?

The throttle cable and plate move freely with my foot on the pedal.

My air filter is clean as off two days ago- the guys at Fujita send you two when you buy their CAI, bonus! :thumbup:

Ha! right now my problem is time- I have work in the morning and I was busy all day today, so i couldn't get to my engine problems... I'll just let this thread fizzle until I can get some good info back to you guys tomorrow afternoon, (hopefully.)

I'll check my coil packs, do the map whack, add another ziptie to my engine bay:laugh: , check my fuel filter and the fuel pressure, and get back to you.

Thanks a MILLION for your help guys, and uh, if you ever need help making a car look ricey, be sure and call in that favor! :D

[repiv]

My spark plugs are iridium bosch plugs and are fairly new- maybe 10,000 miles old.
Start by getting rid of these plugs. It was fairly common knowledge that Bosche plugs do NOT work consistently well in this engine and as an aside, iridium plugs are somewhat haphazzard in performance as well. You may have been exceptionally lucky that they've worked for 10K miles. Get some OEM plugs, gap them correctly to rule out the plugs as being the problem.

[Goku]

Start by getting rid of these plugs. It was fairly common knowledge that Bosche plugs do NOT work consistently well in this engine and as an aside, iridium plugs are somewhat haphazzard in performance as well. You may have been exceptionally lucky that they've worked for 10K miles. Get some OEM plugs, gap them correctly to rule out the plugs as being the problem.


Agreed, Bosche plugs do not work in honda's. Throw them away and get Some NGK's from the auto parts store or dealership.

I tell you this from experience with my friends Civics, and Accords, they had the same things happing as you do. Car is erratic and just acting weird. I do all the things said here, from distributor to checking all the sensors. I then read online that bosche plugs are junk for any Honda. After replacing the plugs cars are running like normal. If I where you I would plunk the 80 bucks and get all OEM NGK plugs in your car stat. Bet ya a dough nut that the car acts fine after that. :D

[Alacrity]

working on all those suggestions now... here's my finished map whak :)

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i18/alacritae/maopwhack.jpg

[repiv]

working on all those suggestions now... here's my finished map whak :)

Pretty slick. Oughta do the trick. Did you clean out the airway under the sensor?

[Alacrity]

Yes I did, used a rag and W/D like you suggested with a pressurized air finish.

I had a question though- there was a lot of grime just inside the throttle body. If I rotated the throttle plate I could see black gunk lining the inside of the plenum- is that the right word? The TB was super clean on the two inches BEFORE the plate, but the plate itself, and just behind it, leading into the engine, there was a decent amount of build-up.

It seems to me that there shouldn't be TOO much gunk in that area- as all the air is moving into the engine... Maybe there is some blow- back occurring?

[Jasonoff]

I had a question though- there was a lot of grime just inside the throttle body. If I rotated the throttle plate I could see black gunk lining the inside of the plenum- is that the right word? The TB was super clean on the two inches BEFORE the plate, but the plate itself, and just behind it, leading into the engine, there was a decent amount of build-up.

It seems to me that there shouldn't be TOO much gunk in that area- as all the air is moving into the engine... Maybe there is some blow- back occurring?Oil travels into that area from the PCV valve. It's normal.

[repiv]

Oil travels into that area from the PCV valve. It's normal.

Quite right. But on a high mileage car, you may have unusual build-up and a good cleaning will do wonders. That is, if you want to spend the time to do it. May have to remove the TB and reach in with a lint free cloth sprayed with WD or carb cleaner. I doubt this is relevent to your present issue. It's just something to consider later. If you can get the car to run properly with the suggestions listed, leave it be.

[Jasonoff]

I'm not sure if it actually helps in some cases. I took mine off and cleaned it soo well you could eat off of it.

I didn't notice any difference :(

Dave how is yours considering you have a catch can?

[repiv]

I'm not sure if it actually helps in some cases. I took mine off and cleaned it soo well you could eat off of it.

I didn't notice any difference :(

Dave how is yours considering you have a catch can?

I haven't looked down the throat of my intake manifold in years. The runs great, so I just leave it alone. I've seen some pretty filthy manifolds and the cars ran fine. Like I said, cleaning it is only if you have the time and there's nothing else that seems to help solve a particular problem. I can only imagine that it might help should, say for example, the IAT sensor area was badly caked with crud, however, I really have no proof one way or the other.
Sometimes, when all else fails to fix a problem, going off to knit a sweater can have interesting consequences. :o

[Jasonoff]

I find an ice cold beer helps :lol:

[Alacrity]

Ha hah i see a storm gathering on the horizon- isn't there a thread (or 10) dedicated exclusively to posting up ways to kill stress? I'll stick with my sexbox360 and a copy of grand theft auto4- nothing like beating fake hookers and gangbangers for a stress releaser...

right, back on track.

my dad taught me a long time ago that if you are going to pull something apart- you had better disassemble it into the smallest pieces and clean each one thoroughly. If not for peace of mind, then for the knowledge gained about the item's inner workings. I applied my ethic to my T/B already, just for fun, and yeah- i'd eat off it.

I picked up some NKG double platinums plugs today, i'm installing them now. Would a single tip platinum plug have done ok? the price difference was steep.

[repiv]

I picked up some NKG double platinums plugs today, i'm installing them now. Would a single tip platinum plug have done ok? the price difference was steep.
I believe the OEM plugs are single platinum and they work quite well. The double may give you longer service life, even though you may never keep the car that long.

[JonBoy]

The factory plugs are good for 100K miles, I believe. $100 in plugs over 100K miles is pretty cheap. Other "cheap" plugs typically have to be changed out much more often (15K-30K miles) in the S2000 so in the end, the price difference isn't really that big....

[Alacrity]

no doubt- these bosch iridium platinum four pronged buggers are pretty trashed for only having been in the car 7,000 miles.

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i18/alacritae/gfdgf002.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i18/alacritae/gfdgf001.jpg

[repiv]

Those look pretty bad for 7K. I'd have expected those thing were in for over 50K. Pretty convincing argument for not using them.

[Goku]

lets us know how it turns out. But by the looks of things your problems should be solved.

[Alacrity]

lets us know how it turns out. But by the looks of things your problems should be solved.

funny you should say that- my problems seem to have disappeared :thumbup:

after all that worry, after all, my car was acting like it needed a thousand dollar overhaul, it seems a set of new plugs was the only thing I needed :lol2:

thanks so much to repiv, which i just figured out was viper backwards, :light: and you other guys for being so informative!

[Goku]

Someone owes me a Dough-nut!

[repiv]

I think a lessen can be learned out of this.

Don't let those fancy Bosche spark plug adds sway you into trying them. They look really good on paper and in the adds. For an S, they just don't work consistently over the long run.