Dealer and Vtec Problems

[s2keepup]

Ok, so i took my car out this morning and right at 6500rpm, it tried going into vtec but flattened out... in fact it acted like that is where the redline is and wouldnt go any further. Its warm out, about 70 degrees today. been that for a few days, and i have had her out everyday (she is my daily driver).

Last week i noticed a mild leak from the vtec solenoid. Took it to the dealer while i was there to get some dents removed and they said it was very mild but to keep an eye on it.

So i took it to my dealer because i still have a warranty and when ur broke thats the only option. Of course they finger the Fujita CAI and say its throwing off the MAP sensor. We checked the vtec solenoid again today and a very mild drop was coming from it. however, there is virtually no change in the oil level so they said the problem must have been coming from elsewhere. If there was a bigger leak, then it would possibly be the cause. They said just in case, they are going to order a new solenoid and see if that helps. but they are very adament that its because of the intake.

This all sounds fishy to me. I have had the intake since sept and had NO problems. There was no check engine light, the ECU output no codes. So this weekend i am putting the stock tubing back in to see what that does. If that fixes the problem then i am a very sad girl who has to give up her fujita.

If that is the case, how could the intake throw it off? Is there anything i can do to change that? Other 06 models have this intake and i have not heard of any problems before.

Thank you for your help!

[alvanderp]

I personally think thats a bunch of horse hockey, but I have been wrong before.

The only thing I can think of is the ECU has modified the throttle opening and closing duty cycles based on the increased pressure inside the IM. DBW cars rarely open the throttle blades fully, and there is a table the ECU uses to determine how far to open the throttle regardless of how far your foot goes down. Now, I dont know for sure the ECU can make adjustments to the base table or not, but it would make sense that it could. It is then possible to form a line of logic that the ECU has slowly adjusted the throttle blade duty cycle to a point where it falls flat at 6500 due to the increased manifold pressure created by the CAI, but its highly unlikely IMO.

I find it much more likely the issue is your VTEC solenoid, especially if you are leaking oil from it. Although its infinetely possible there are other issues at play, i.e. ignition related.

[Scooterboy]

I've got the same set-up and have had no problems. But mine is snug in the garage buried under a blanket of snow .

[joe_s2k]

M,

Ain't it freaky when you've been driving the car for 30 minutes and can't hit VTEC! It's just like the typical engine not being warmed up and hitting the wall at 6k, but we know that's not the case this time.

I had the same problem before and ended up doing the map sensor "whack" and checked out the filter behind the vtec solenoid. I've never had it happen since.

[s2keepup]

lol i like the whack method, ive used that on various appliances too LOL

well one theory is the ECU still thinks its cold
another is the plugs are worn faster because of the intake

she has 24k miles almost and the gauge said it was warm but now i find thats not related. (part #20 http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=S2000&catcgry2=2006&catcgry3=2DR+S2000&catcgry4=KA6MT&catcgry5=INTAKE+MANIFOLD+%28+06-%29)
so we have a couple things we can check

either way i have to put the stock airbox back on before the dealer is willing to do anything.

[darkside]

sounds like your vtec solenoid spool valve/gasket has taken a dump and far as no vtec goes , do you have any pictures of the plugs?? And what plugs are you using? No check engine either is kind of odd. Have you reset the ecu any time soon?

[s2keepup]

yeah im going to take pix of the plugs tonite. still stock plugs that were on the engine form day 1.
we reset the ecu way back when i got new tires because the VSA was flipping out over the grip difference.. another dealer booboo.... had the nerve to say my brand new eagles were a POS and my bald bridgestones were better because they were OEM :rolleyes:

[audax]

The stealership is full of ****, like always.

I'd bet my life that the VTEC solenoid is at fault. But according to the dealership Honda hasn't engineered anything to handle a slightly higher volume of intake air.

Oh well, time to put the stock intake back on and prove those idiots wrong... AGAIN.

[darkside]

Hearing things like VSA tripping over some tires and no vtec cause of intake make me love my ap1 a little more haha just kidding...but take some pics of the plugs

[audax]

Funny thing is that a family friend bought a used '04 S2000 with an AEM intake from the same dealership. What would they tell him if this problem came up? Morons.

[s2keepup]

yeah im so far not very thrilled with the 06
but every time i have a problem, other 06 models dont. so its just my car :(

[audax]

This car barely has over 20k miles on it. I'm not pulling the plugs. Once the stock intake is back on, it's the dealership's problem.

[s2keepup]

Funny thing is that a family friend bought a used '04 S2000 with an AEM intake from the same dealership. What would they tell him if this problem came up? Morons.

hahaha thats right!
geez i need to find a new dealership

[s2keepup]

This car barely has over 20k miles on it. I'm not pulling the plugs. Once the stock intake is back on, it's the dealership's problem.

ok ok, well i thought it would be a quick check.
im going to take a list in to them anyways and make them check it all.
she is just about to break 24k miles

[darkside]

This car barely has over 20k miles on it. I'm not pulling the plugs. Once the stock intake is back on, it's the dealership's problem.


:think: Well either way , I change my plugs every OTHER oil change I do along with the diff and tranny fluid. I like pulling the plugs to see how my motor is doing , its liek reading a book your engine wrote.

But if you are one just to hand it over to a dealership go ahead, thats what the warenty is for.:laugh:

[s2keepup]

what are some good plugs?

[alvanderp]

The NGK Iridiums that come OE are fine, or you can run coppers if you dont care about changing them more often. Most O'Reilly's have them on hand(assuming you folks in SoCal have O'Reilly's).

[s2keepup]

hehe we have kragen (which i think is oreily's out of state) and autozone and pep boys

[alvanderp]

It looks like Kragen carries them, hard to say if they would have them in stock at whichever store you went to. Still, they should be able to get them next day. Just tell them you need NGK Iridium plugs for an 06 S2000, they can pull up the part for you. It's P/N IFR7G-11KS if you want to give that to them. They are about $20 a piece at the store FYI. You can get them for about $12 a piece from sparkplugs.com, but you pay shipping.

[Jays2k]

I'm telling you it seems stupid but check the plugs the car sounds like its mirroring what mine did....and the dealer gave me the same line of bs

[repiv]

My thoughts .......................
In the area of the VTEC solenoid, there are TWO wiring harnesses. One is for the solenoid and the other is for the pressure switch. The solenoid itself may in fact, be the problem, but your engine may also have a problem with the pressure switch. If it doesn't sense enough oil pressure, it won't "throw the switch". If it senses pressure, it will TRY to throw the switch, but if the switch is bad, no VTEC. That must be checked.
There is a third thing to check in that area. The sandwich that the VTEC solenoid is bolted to, has an oil screen. If that screen has somehow gotten clogged, no VTEC. That screen needs to be removed and inspected and cleaned if necessary. While that's being done, the rubber gasket should be changed. This should take care of the small leak. The leak tells me that either something is loose or there is a build up of pressure that is out of the ordinary. Why? Maybe there is a blockage somewhere that is causing the oil to find an easier path out. Thus, why the screen should be checked and cleaned.
As a side thought .................. How long of an oil change interval do you use? Do you change your oil filter every time you do an oil change? Have you seen any signs of sludge build up under the valve cover? (Remove oil filler cap, carefully insert small finger into hole and gently scrape the underside of the valve cover. See any sludge?) This might give a clue as to the condition of the VTEC oil screen.

PS. It is my belief that the OEM sparkplugs are platinum, whether they be NGK or Denso. Experience and reading these forums for nearly 8 years has shown me that although Iridium plugs work well initially, in some cases, they create more problems than they're worth. I will no longer use Iridium plugs in this engine.

[darkside]

at 20k I would really be surprised if the screen is clogged even if there was any sludge in the motor what so ever...

The plugs are platinum NGK from factory

[s2keepup]

Ok i took it out to get some lunch and it went into vtec just fine... so now im totally confused.

[s2keepup]

As a side thought .................. How long of an oil change interval do you use? Do you change your oil filter every time you do an oil change? Have you seen any signs of sludge build up under the valve cover? (Remove oil filler cap, carefully insert small finger into hole and gently scrape the underside of the valve cover. See any sludge?) This might give a clue as to the condition of the VTEC oil screen.
.

Every 3-5000 miles. no more than 5000 ever.
i take it to the dealer because its part of the warranty... they do it for free.
SUPPOSEDLY they use honda oil and replace the filter every time.

[repiv]

Ok i took it out to get some lunch and it went into vtec just fine... so now im totally confused.

An "intermittent" failure like this would indicate to me a possible electrical failure, like the pressure switch or solenoid. However, that oil leak is still a bit suspect and needs to be looked into.

[s2keepup]

Yeah at least that is consistent and the dealership agreed to replace the solenoid regardless of what else is going on. it shouldnt be leaking, so they are fixing it. Now whether its related to this problem or not awaits to be seen i suppose. We are still going to put the stock airbox back in so they have nothing to bawk about when i take it in. if i can get it to happen still, then they know it has nothing to do with me putting an intake in.

[s2keepup]

thank you for your help dave and everyone else's help too btw :) as u have seen in the past this dealer has quite a history :rolleyes: and i like to know what im getting into. now i have a list of things to check out!

[repiv]

BTW, I think it is highly unlikely that a CAI has anything to do with this. History proves this.

[s2keepup]

Thanks thats what i thought too but without taking it out i cant prove them wrong. same situation when i had to show them my VSA going whack wasnt because of my tires. they are stupid and stubborn, which is twice as bad.

im just glad i get to keep my intake :D

[Hawkeye]

It's disheartening to hear how bad some of these Honda dealers are in wanting to void your warranty or avoid warranty work based on ANY aftermarket performance parts. I know GM dealers actually sell cat backs and CAI's over the parts counter for some of their vehicles and they don't void the warranty.

I've had my twin turbo 05 GTO in for warranty work and they were cool about it. Of course, I accept responsibility for any engine/drivetrain failures, but they did fix an a/c issue last year under warranty.

Oh well, I doubt I'll mod this car anyway.

[Scooterboy]

You're still under warranty. Take it to another dealer. I've taken mine to whatever dealer I am near when I need work.

[rioyellows2k]

I'm betting the Oil used is Honda Genuine Parts 10W-30, since the S2000/Civic Hybrid/and Inisght are the only Honda to not use 5W-20.

Well that's how we work anyway. You either get HOP 10W-30 or Mobil 1.

I'm with the xviper on this one...

[kulivontot]

Hi,
I just got my 2003 S2k about 6 months ago, and I have experienced what you're referring to on a couple of occasions. However, I'm running 100% stock at 11k miles, so my guess is that it's not your intake. It definitely freaked me out the first time it happened. One thing I can suggest is looking at this honda service bulletin found on s2ki.com.

http://www.s2ki.com/stor/library/TSB/a04-073.pdf

Basically, it describes "Intermittent hesitation under hard acceleration" that is caused by the MAP sensor coming loose under the hard vibrations of the engine at high RPM. The fix, which is 100% covered under honda warranty and may also be considered for good-faith repair by honda, is to replace the MAP sensor with a new one, and then install what looks like a zip tie to the connector to hold it in place.

The MAP sensor is sitting on top of the throttle body to the right of the engine. You can jiggle around the connector to see how worn out and loose the contacts are by hand. If it seems somewhat loose, than this may be your problem, however it is somewhat difficult to see how high RPM's will affect the fit of the connector.

I haven't taken my car into the dealer to have the fix applied, so I can't say with any sort of confidence that this is the fix to either of our problems, but I figure if it's in a honda service bulletin, it must be a common enough issue to be worth mentioning.

[repiv]

^ Certainly, the MAP sensor issue is worth a look. It may very well benefit from a new sensor and more over, a secure attachment system, although like you say, this has nothing to do with the CAI. The dealer is just excusing their lack of skill in resolving this with something totally unrelated to draw attention away from their own ineptitude.
Usually, a poor connection at the MAP wiring harness will cause surging in the high rpm range, but it can also cause odd behavior in the lower ranges as well and it's not impossible for it to decide to quit around VTEC rpm. It may appear to be affecting VTEC but could just be a fluke.

Michelle, before you go back to the dealer again, it wouldn't hurt to fashion yourself a "zip tie" to hold the MAP connector firmly in place. Do this after you've disconnected it and vigorously wiggle it back on (this will "freshen" up the connection). Who knows, sometimes the littlest thing can make a world of difference.

[SondraS2k]

lol i like the whack method, ive used that on various appliances too LOL


Stantaur calls that "percussive maintenance" :rofl:

Until this week, I had had an intake on my car since December of 2005, and I've never had that issue. Lots and lots of others have too without issue, so I think I'm going to have to call bull~~ on the dealer. Sounds to me like they are just too lazy to figure out what the real issue is... :rolleye2:

[alvanderp]

P/S. It is my belief that the OEM sparkplugs are platinum, whether they be NGK or Denso. Experience and reading these forums for nearly 8 years has shown me that although Iridium plugs work well initially, in some cases, they create more problems than they're worth. I will no longer use Iridium plugs in this engine.

My apologies for the erroneous info. Dave - you are correct. I had been told that the newer Hondas were coming with Iridiums and took the person at their word. When doing my Pulstar testing today, I pulled my OE plugs and they were in fact platinums.

[repiv]

My apologies for the erroneous info. Dave - you are correct. I had been told that the newer Hondas were coming with Iridiums and took the person at their word. When doing my Pulstar testing today, I pulled my OE plugs and they were in fact platinums.

No problem. We all can have odd information at times, including myself. I appreciate being corrected when it's me as I hope that I posted in a civilized manner when I had different information than you. :rockon:

[s2keepup]

You're still under warranty. Take it to another dealer. I've taken mine to whatever dealer I am near when I need work.

im taking it to another dealer next week... i told them the situation and he laughed in disbelief at the way i was treated. I had called a friend of mine who used to be a sales mgr at family honda and he recommended i see this other guy at another honda dealer. glad to have people in all places :thumbsup:

[s2keepup]

^ Certainly, the MAP sensor issue is worth a look. It may very well benefit from a new sensor and more over, a secure attachment system, although like you say, this has nothing to do with the CAI. The dealer is just excusing their lack of skill in resolving this with something totally unrelated to draw attention away from their own ineptitude.
Usually, a poor connection at the MAP wiring harness will cause surging in the high rpm range, but it can also cause odd behavior in the lower ranges as well and it's not impossible for it to decide to quit around VTEC rpm. It may appear to be affecting VTEC but could just be a fluke.

Michelle, before you go back to the dealer again, it wouldn't hurt to fashion yourself a "zip tie" to hold the MAP connector firmly in place. Do this after you've disconnected it and vigorously wiggle it back on (this will "freshen" up the connection). Who knows, sometimes the littlest thing can make a world of difference.

yeah the new dealer doesnt have a prob with the intake. he did mention something about the MAP sensor but i cant recall exactly what.
I will try ^ that and see what happens. so far today its working fine i cant seem to get the problem to happen again.

[s2keepup]

Stantaur calls that "percussive maintenance" :rofl:

Until this week, I had had an intake on my car since December of 2005, and I've never had that issue. Lots and lots of others have too without issue, so I think I'm going to have to call bull~~ on the dealer. Sounds to me like they are just too lazy to figure out what the real issue is... :rolleye2:

yeah well after i talked with a couple guys who used to work there they informed me that after new ownership, their focus in the service dept changed.... load up on uneccessary services when the customer is paying, or do whatever you can to get out of warranty covered work. which doesnt make sense to me since honda is paying for their work anyways. its screwed up and you can BET im going to write a LONG letter to my honda rep.