Xvipers take on the new Kraftwerks Rotrex system?

[archtop]

I have been wanting to boost my 06' for quite some time and this new Rotrex kit looks real appealing.The power curve looks really smooth and the kit has some wonderful features(eg Hondata reflash,ease of install etc).Any comments or advice?I was thinking the high boost kit would be the ticket but is 10psi pushing the reliability aspect ?Would I be better off with the 6psi kit?Seems like you would need an upgraded pressure plate with either kit for the long haul and they are the same price. Thanks in advance!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/archtop/S2KBasesdyno.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/archtop/KraftworksDynoChart-1.jpg

[repiv]

Although I haven't studied the information on this kit, from what I've seen, it does appear to be a very impressive product (but that goes with the hype on any new product). Having said this, being a "back yard" mechanic, like many DIY wrenchers, I am reluctant to involve my mods with outside tuning shops simply due to the hassle of going to one that knows very little about S2000s. Is even their "base" kit something that you can bolt on and go? It seems that is what Kraftwerks is implying, but I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig.
The Kraftwerks product is a lot more extensive in componentry for your '06. It involves injectors, oil cooler relocation, ECU reflash. The installation is not nearly as simplistic as VT or CT, which we all know has been very reliable "bolt on and go" type of kits.
Even if they claim the high boost kit is ready to go, I wouldn't feel comfortable not at least checking the tune before heading down the road. Again, I would hold back till quite a few others have gone before me. My car is my daily driver and I can't risk having the car down for any length of time because my supercharger blew up the engine (let alone the money involved). Once it's been out there for a while and has proven itself in other peoples' cars, heck, I might want to change over myself.
I'm not a gambler and I'm not a guinea pig or a "pioneer". I only go for stuff that's tried and true. I only experiment with stuff that, if it goes wrong, doesn't come back and bite me in the butt. As we've seen from the early generations of turbos for this car (and even early gen of VT and CT kits), being impatient and being "first" can cause a great deal of heartache and be a constant drain on your bank account.

PS. These graphs are likely non-production models that have been tweaked to get the most impressive looking results. Your results may vary. As far as you clutch is concerned, if you don't "drive it like you stole it", your fairly new '06 clutch should still be good for a while even with the high boost kit. Change it when you feel you really need it. I ran my stock clutch for over 4 years boosted before changing it out and the old disc still looked like it had some life left in it. However, the HD PP does help immensely in putting down the power and making the car more enjoyable to drive. If money is no object, then do it, but it's not absolutely or immediately necessary.

[archtop]

Thanks for the solid advice.I generally jump the gun on new mods and have regretted it in the past.I am not worried at all about the Hondata tune.I have their stock reflash and the car runs smoother than stock.I actually feel better about the Hondata's tune than I do a piggyback tune like Vortech's.I think your right that no 3rd party results have been posted yet since no one owns one.The 10% pre order discount is enticing though,almost pays for the clutch.

[repiv]

The 10% pre order discount is enticing though,almost pays for the clutch.
Jackson Racing has been known for good customer service and I'm sure the Kraftwerks division will likely stand behind this product and look after you if something should go wrong. 10% is quite enticing. However, wouldn't it be nice to know a few others have tested it first and you won't have to ask them to look after you? I still remember some of the early Turbo kits that needed a lot of after sale customer service. It took a long time sort it all out and was quite a nightmare.

[archtop]

In reality 10% is your commission for being the beta tester. Guess there is a price for everything.:freak2:

[repiv]

beta tester
This, in itself, would give me the heeby jeebies.

[Jasonoff]

Looks like a great unit. There will be enough "beta" testers in a short amount of time.

Once the dust clears I think this is the kit I will go with.

[00integrals]

Can anyone post the link to their website? I've tried Google-ing it, but came up with less than spectacular results. TIA

[Jasonoff]

Can anyone post the link to their website? I've tried Google-ing it, but came up with less than spectacular results. TIAhttp://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=Kraftwerks+USA&btnG=Search&meta= (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=Kraftwerks+USA&btnG=Search&meta=)
Your google must be broken :p

http://www.kraftwerksusa.com/

[00integrals]

Haha ... I guess if I could spell that might help. Oops ... thanks man.

[Slambo]

I am one of the guinea pig's that is on the pre order list for the high boost kit. I have read alot of this kit ever since JT (XLEVEL) told me about followed and read the 60,000 pages over there on S2ki and can tell you this kit looks promising.

When I have this kit finally in my car I'll post alot of feedback here. Speaking with Mechanic's that I know I have been told that the Kits, that Oscar Jackson makes have always tended to be more friendly on Honda's but thats all in what you hear and proof is in the puddin :)

There have been people who have commented on when HKS made an S/C using the Rotrex Blower that it had problems earlier on. and discontiued it, after diggin about on this issues all I came up with was that they had an Issue with the a bolt on the pully that kept comming loose, ans supposedely this kit is still made, just not here in America, Supposedely.......

The Clutch I am planning on using is from HTG, from what I was told this clutch will be more then good enough for this S/C

The tune from what I have read about this kit and according to Oscar Jr has been done by what he says are "three of the most famous Honda tuners"


By Oscar Jackson Jr.
Remember, three of the most famous Honda tuners in the industry have been associated with the tuning of this KraftWerks package. Oscar Jackson Sr., Doug Macmillan of Hondata, and Shawn Church of Church's Auto Testing/Temple of VTEC... All have resumes that radiate reliability.

Our kit has been and will be extremely reliable. We have made over 200 dyno runs with our kit, have driven it for months in incredibly hot weather, and have not had a hiccup. Our engineering is top-notch and OE quality. Our tuning is spot-on and reliable. If anything we are conservative in our fuel calibration and timing settings to ensure reliability. We have a 2-year warranty on all KraftWerks supercharger kits, because we believe in our product.

How can we guarantee your engine if we do not know how often you service your car? What if you run the car with low coolant levels? What if you run the car low on oil or no oil? What if you use 87 octane?

There are far too many variables that we cannot account for to give you a warranty on your engine. And when you purchase our kit, we expect you to take proper care of your engine and do regular maintenance as needed. Now in no way am I saying the kit cannot be flogged. It can... Trust me I know

There are things like the fact that this kit pushes 10psi which is a little unnerviing and even diggin out on S2ki I have not had any luck of peoples storys of failures or success with a turbo pushing 10 psi or a S/C pushing 10 Psi , with the exception of maybe one or 2 posts even though people claim there are tons of posts about blown HG's and the limit to the Stock HG, (I think my searchin skillz over there suck or is it there bear of a search engine :thumbdown:)

I even have read a comment where Oscar Jackson Jr. was answering a question about how a HG on a Turbo gets more abuse or a different type of abuse then when you have a S/C on your car, still though a question lingers in my mind if be it 10 psi turbo or 10 psi S/C what is the real limit for the stock Head Gasket on our cars?


By Oscar Jackson Jr.
I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Superchargers produce air in a different manner than turbos and require different upgrades at different stages. They are different disciplines with different limitations on stock components. Wow I said different a lot...

A Rotrex strength is the low output temperatures. We can produce extremely cool air because the supercharger is not connected to the exhaust and does not have engine oil running through it. The compressor can then produce the compressed air as intended, without much additional heat.

This allows us to produce these great performance numbers. For example, we are making 16WHP per pound of boost on the High-Boost kit and 18WHP per pound of boost on the Base kit!

We have tuned the KraftWerks kits to the Rotrex strengths and have ensured that we have reliable power at our power levels. We would not produce a product we knew would catastrophically fail. That would not be fun for you or me.


When the realibility issue comes to mind there really isnt anything outside of what they have tested and 200 hundred Dynos sounds like alot as mentioned above.

In the end theres no doubt in my mind that I will tell this community if this Kit is utter garbage, if the tune sucked a$$ or if putting the kit in my new S was the single most dumbest thing I ever did.

Only time will tell :thumbup:

[Rocketman]

I hope it works our for you man. I follow Dave's logic, so I'm keenly interested in whether or not it is a dependable setup.

[repiv]

The Clutch I am planning on using is from HTG, from what I was told this clutch will be more then good enough for this S/CI have this clutch myself but with the CT flywheel. It works great on my car and I predict it will work great with the Kraftwerks kit.

In the end theres no doubt in my mind that I wont tell this community if this Kit is utter garbage, if the tune sucked a$$ or if putting the kit in my new S was the single most dumbest thing I ever did.
I trust this was a typo. You will tell us, won't you? ;)

[S2k Dude]

I know of one kit that will be installed in the Atlanta area (once Kraftwerks starts shipping this kit), I know the owner well so I will be able to get a first hand look at the install, performance and reliability. This will be the high boost kit, although I'd only be interested in the base kit if I were ever to install a S/C.

[Slambo]

I have this clutch myself but with the CT flywheel. It works great on my car and I predict it will work great with the Kraftwerks kit.

I trust this was a typo. You will tell us, won't you? ;)

Doh!

Fixed

[JustinC]

Yeah, one thing that they keep saying is that the kit that they have been running and testing on is not the "production" model. They keep saying that they won't post pictures until the "production" kit is ready. I would be curious as to what they are changing between their prototype kit and the "production" kit.

[Slambo]

Probally because of all the backlash of the "you said this and you said that". Also the prototype at SEMA was a 1 off so the kit there releasing is tuned down from that one to be more reliable. I am curious if the one featured on TOV in that video was running the 400+ HP when they showed it off.

All I can say is that when I talked to Oscar Jr over there he was a very helpful and answered any questions or concerns I had, I think these guys are fully aware of what there releasing and how good or bad the 1st impressions on this kit can be for there future business.