Rough Shifting

[jbeni96]

I am one of those amateur drivers that went from an Integra to an S2000 AP2, and am having problems with the shifting.

What is the proper way of doing it?

After the transmission warms up it gets better, but I still get some of the crunch from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. Double clutching does help, but I don't think that it's normal to have to double clutch every time to get smooth up shifting. What am I doing wrong?

Some people say that it's normal, some people say that there is something wrong with the transmission, some people say there is something wrong with my driving. I have been driving stick shift cars all my life and have never had this problem before. http://www.s2ki.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif

The dealer is about to take my transmission apart, and I think that in the end, that will just bring more problems.

[griffon]

I am one of those amateur drivers that went from an Integra to an S2000 AP2, and am having problems with the shifting.

What is the proper way of doing it?

After the transmission warms up it gets better, but I still get some of the crunch from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. Double clutching does help, but I don't think that it's normal to have to double clutch every time to get smooth up shifting. What am I doing wrong?

Some people say that it's normal, some people say that there is something wrong with the transmission, some people say there is something wrong with my driving. I have been driving stick shift cars all my life and have never had this problem before. http://www.s2ki.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif

The dealer is about to take my transmission apart, and I think that in the end, that will just bring more problems.

If you are under warranty make it Honda's problem.:thumbup:

I would vote for tranny problems.

[jbeni96]

Thanks Griffon,

The more I think about it the more I am leaning towards your recommendation. The S2000 prides itself in smooth shifting, and thus far I have not experienced it. Thank you.

[gomarlins3]

I would try changing the fluid first and see if that helps.

[jbeni96]

gomarlins3,

Thanks. The dealer after much consultation with Tech support decided to change the fluid to a different type. I guess higher viscosity. That made it better after the transmission warms up, but I still feel some of the crunch at times even with the hot transmission.

My concern is that the mechanics at the dealer are not really qualified to work on the car, although they assure me they are. They have done much simpler jobs than a transmission job, with less than desirable results.

[My_yella_s2k]

the rear diff and trans fluid should be flushed out... that would be the 1st thing we do (we being a dealership in nj)

[jbeni96]

My yella s2k,

Thanks for the input. I know that they replaced the transmission fluid, but not the differential fluid. I will ask them about that.

[Geo02s2k]

My yella s2k,

Thanks for the input. I know that they replaced the transmission fluid, but not the differential fluid. I will ask them about that.

Make sure they know what goes in the rear diff. or they'll be replacing that too. It isn't a product that all of the dealerships keep around. A common mistake is for them to put in what they put in a CR-V. Do a quick search on this site for 'Rear differential fluid' or consult your manual and you'll find what should be used.

I also came to the S2k (AP1) from an Integra and the shifting is quite a bit notchier, but much more precise and very much shorter. Changing the fluids does help, but it is still a bit of an issue when it is cold. Good luck.

[slash00r]

I just bought a brand new 07 a week ago and I'm having the same exact issue I believe. I have come from a Type R -> STI -> AP2 and definitely notice increased notchiness from 2nd to 3rd. It improves as the trans heats up but it's certainly not smooth by any means -- I'm a bit disappointed after a week of driving.

Guessing I'll be taking it in as well ... sigh

[Jasonoff]

It's most likely your fluid or you're not pushing your clutch to the floor. If you are there could be a problem with your clutch hydraulics.

Your differential fluid has nothing to do with shifting so they don't need to touch anything there.

I use this transmission fluid.

https://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/images/mtf_qt_350pxh.jpg

97K miles on my 00 and my transmission still shifts like butter. :)

[slash00r]

It doesn't feel like a grinding sensation for me (ie. not worn synchros). It's as if something was binding and not allowing the gear or lever to go into place cleanly. I've had to replace synchros in a trans before so i know what that feels like -- this is not the same. When I shift more slowly and deliberately that seems to mitigate the issue, plus it only happens from 2-3. Strange.

I've also read that 06-07 S2s and SIs have had this issue intermittently and dealers have been instructed to tell the owners to put a few thousand miles on the car before rushing to any judgements. I don't know the veracity of that statement - just read it somewhere.

[Jasonoff]

If you shift very slowly (ie move the shifter slowly into gear) that puts a lot of stress on your synchros.

Edit: To the OP.. sometimes an understanding how it fully works mechanically can help understand what is happening and or can change your driving habits to remedy the problem.

Have a read through this.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission3.htm

[jbeni96]

Thanks for all the input.

[kgf3076]

S2ks all have a tendency to be difficult to shift from first to second when they're cold. Some care and slow shifting until the car warms up (3 bars on the temp guage) and it should smooth right out. I also changed to Redline Manual Transmission fluid and that helped as well. YMMV...

[Jasonoff]

S2ks all have a tendency to be difficult to shift from first to second when they're cold. Some care and slow shifting until the car warms up (3 bars on the temp guage) and it should smooth right out. I also changed to Redline Manual Transmission fluid and that helped as well. YMMV...Good catch.

If the OP is talking abut it being more difficult to select 1st and 2nd gear it's due to the fact that 1st and 2nd have a triple cone synchronizer.

I believe in the Integra it's just a double cone for all gears. The RSX has triple cone 1st and 2nd and it was a huge complaint because with this technology you can't be lazy with the clutch pedal :)

[ChrisS02]

I have found that when my car has issues shifting one the first things I do that cost no money is move my seat up on click. If you are not pushing in the clutch all the way it will cause for the car to shift roughly like I believe you are explaining.

[vernfin]

Here's my shifter saga. Immediately after taking delivery of my 2005 I noticed some really bad notchiness between 1, 2 and 3rd. I took it into the dealer, they drove the car and agreed there was a problem. The took the car for a week and rebuilt the transmission. It seemed OK on the drive home, but the next morning I discovered it wouldn't go into reverse! Back to the dealer for a couple of days. When they returned it the shifting was smoother, but not the absolute joy that the car mags all rave about. I changed the fluid to Synchromesh Friction Modified #254 (from Hardtopguy.com) and that helped some. But still never as wonderful in the lower gears that I had hoped.

A few months ago the car developed a rattle under the hood which sounded to me like a loose heat-shield or something. Took it to the dealer and...guess what! Time to rebuild the transmission again! Another week in the shop and its been fine since then, but stil not the ultra-smoooth shifter that was I was expecting. Don't get me wrong...I love this car. It's really a joy to drive. But my shifting experience has been the one downside.

[equinoxiq]

What is the proper way of doing it?


maybe i'm misunderstanding the meaning of rough shifting but don't be so quick to blame the car. make sure you're shifting properly by matching the rpm's in downshifts AND upshift. If not properly done then you will get quite a jolt after a shift and it has nothing to do with the state of the transmission

[slash00r]

Update - drove the car this morning. Temp was around 40 degrees after I left the garage.

1-2 shift was like there was no synchro at all - rough, rough. 2-3 shift was like there was an extra piece of metal in the shift gate that the lever was hitting - all that comes to mind is 'clunk'.

After about 10 mins of driving though everything seemed to smooth out. The clutch is all the way to the floor when I shift btw. Anyway, I chalk this up to it being a new tranny and hopefully it works itself out - otherwise, dealership, here I come.

[hecash]

Thanks Griffon,

The more I think about it the more I am leaning towards your recommendation. The S2000 prides itself in smooth shifting, and thus far I have not experienced it. Thank you.

When the S2000 transmission gates and "synchros" properly, it is pure magic. I had two students at Gingerman last year that had "magic" gearboxes. Neither of them had any real idea what I ment when I raved about how their cars shifted.

I think I had 3 gearboxes in my first S2000 and none of them shifted smoothly.

[hecash]

Anyway, I chalk this up to it being a new tranny and hopefully it works itself out - otherwise, dealership, here I come.

I respectfully suggest that you take it to the dealer with your complaint. They will tell you that there is a service bulletin that says that the grind is normal in the transmission when it is cold. Mine does this but it's pretty mild.

However, if you don't start documenting complaints with the dealer right from the outset, you may find that it's more difficult to resolve with them at a later time.

[bimdub]

Wow! I am impressed....a hon da Dealership rebuilding the tranny? thats some real work! would replacing it have been the better decision? I am not sure about them having the proper tools to rebuild a tranny? I know for fact that the Dealer in my area does not even have the correct sized wrench to remove the checkplug from the rear diff on my S2000? I would hardly even dream about him ever opening my transmission! :yikes:

come to think of it........this dealership has been selling hondas for twenty plus years....and my S was the first one they had ever been under......

[physicns]

Update - drove the car this morning. Temp was around 40 degrees after I left the garage.

1-2 shift was like there was no synchro at all - rough, rough. 2-3 shift was like there was an extra piece of metal in the shift gate that the lever was hitting - all that comes to mind is 'clunk'.

After about 10 mins of driving though everything seemed to smooth out. The clutch is all the way to the floor when I shift btw. Anyway, I chalk this up to it being a new tranny and hopefully it works itself out - otherwise, dealership, here I come.

I hate taking the car out for short trips (e.g. quick grocery trip) because the shifting 1-2 is so rough when it's cold.

With the cold, the viscosity of the transmission fluid increases, and during shifts, this slows down the transmission faster than normal. So be careful about 'shifting more slowly' when the car is cold--the flywheel may be slowing down faster than when the car is warm. In any case, this is my experience; If anyone would like to comment or correct me, please do so! :hi:

2-3 shifting I do notice a slight 'kickback' sometimes when I shift too slowly as well. I've read posts by other people complaining about the same thing.

[hecash]

Wow! I am impressed....a hon da Dealership rebuilding the tranny? thats some real work! would replacing it have been the better decision? I am not sure about them having the proper tools to rebuild a tranny? I know for fact that the Dealer in my area does not even have the correct sized wrench to remove the checkplug from the rear diff on my S2000? I would hardly even dream about him ever opening my transmission!

This has merit.

I've only met two Honda techs that I'd trust to rebuild my gearbox. One went to an Acura dealer but the other is still local but looking for a job in California but having trouble selling his home.

I'd give the dealership a thorough investigation prior to having them do this work.

[repiv]

I have been extremely reluctant to respond in this thread but I just realized that being in "Xviper's Den", I should extend the courtesy. I here so many complaints about the S2000's "rough" shifting transmission. These come from primarily people who have very little experience with close gated, short throw, 6 speed manuals and in particular, a 6 sp with the numerical gear ratios that this car has (yes, it's ALL important).
You come from an Integra or a XXXXXX or a XXXXXX and are surprised at how the S2000 feels so notchy. You immediately think something is wrong and it takes you out of your comfort zone. Some even ask the dealer to do something about it. In most cases, the dealer service guy also doesn't have a clue what an S2000 transmission "should" feel like and bases his decision on what he's felt before on other manual cars. In a few rare cases, the dealer will even agree to "do something about it". Be careful what you ask for. It may be granted and as witnessed, they don't know how to tear a tranny apart and put it back together again. You have what may have been a perfectly normal functioning transmission to one that ACTUALLY has new problems.
Don't be misled by automotive journalists who write that the S2000 transmission shifts "like butter". They use the term based on years of comparing all sorts of cars, both "civilian" and "race" oriented cars. Shifting "like butter" may have an entirely different connotation for them, while for the average car owner, this is interpreted as having no tactile feel whatsoever. And when you do feel a little resistance or a little "kick back", suddenly you think something is wrong.
You think the tranny has a bad feel when it's cold? I drive the thing after it's sat outside at -38*C. The shifter barely moves without gorilla force and it takes an eternity of coaxing to actually get it to fall into gear. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS. The tranny is merely reacting to the conditions at hand. In my case, it is the most severe reaction you can get.
In the cases of some of the posters in this thread, the same principles apply, but in a much milder form. Unless you have determined that the driving technique cannot be improved (and in many cases, it can - clutch, throttle, shifter, rpm synchronization can be a hard thing to master) and you are NOT experiencing a horrific grind each time you shift and you are NOT having problems with the tranny staying in gear and the tranny does "smarten up" once warmed, there is the good likelihood there is NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR TRANNY.
Relating what you felt with your last car with this one is a bad analogy. If you've been accustomed to using a cleaver, would you expect the same abilities to make a scalpel work? My favourite analogy is from a time when I used to drive a '71 Datsun Pick Up with 4 speed manual. It has a barge pole for a stick and each gate was as wide as the Grand Canyon. When you moved the shifter, it didn't really matter where you put it, it would just go in and with absolutely no feel, no resistance, no fuss, regardless of what temp it was. THAT tranny was in fact, "LIKE BUTTER". I am NOT driving a '71 Datsun Pick Up anymore. I shouldn't be feeling what I felt in that truck.
There have been some excellent suggestions in this thread with regard to driving technique. Perhaps try some of those first and get good at it before you thing there may be something "wrong" with your car.

PS. I have personally driven several S2000s locally and far from home (at meets) where the "new" owners have feared that they got a bad car. Yup, terribly notchy feeling when shifting, gotta get this fixed. In each and every one of those (new or fairly new) cars, after a good test drive, I discovered they were ALL normal shifting S2000s. It was the DRIVER'S perception that something was not right. You may find that it cannot be "fixed" because it ain't broken. Do you really want to drive a Datsun Pick Up?

[whitefun]

i fully agree with repiv on this topic. i have a my 05 s2k. i too felt that the tranny was not working properly after i purchased the car. rough 1/2 shift that was much worse when cold and notchy feel on the 2/3 shift. the car had 155 miles when i bought it. now at 9000. i have manual shifting cars and trucks(18 wheelers) my entire adult life. after trying some of the suggestions from other owners the smoothness of the shifts improved a lot. in my car i found that the 1/2 shift liked a certain rpm range when cold. to low or high and it would shift roughly. also the timing of your shift makes a big difference. i still get a rough 1/2 shift once in a while that goes away after a few miles. nothing wrong with my car. i just had to get to know it better. good luck.

[physicns]

Repiv -- thanks for your insight. After reading countless threads on the topic (and worrying about it myself), it's just what I needed to hear, and reinforces what I had hoped all along.

Whitefun -- I've just recently noticed that. My 1-2 shift is very difficult at 3k (where I previously shifted while warming the car) but realized it shifts much better at 5k, even when cold.

I understand the finesse it takes to shift properly in an S2000, but most threads I've read in the past espouse "it just takes practice" instead of giving practical advice or reassurance.

[repiv]

instead of giving practical advice or reassurance.
The thing about "practice" is that it seems there are many techniques that will work and it would be difficult to sift through the genuine advice from the BS. It would take trial and error (or "practice" as some would call it) to come up with one that works.
My hints would be as follows:
-Make sure your seat is forward enough that you can easily and completely depress the clutch. It would also help to have a properly adjusted clutch pedal so that the proper free play is at both the top end and at the floor. A clutch that is functioning improperly can make for a more difficult time shifting.
-Learn where the "gates" are for each gear. Know why the centering spring exists. It's there to hold the stick dead center in the 3 - 4 gate. When selecting those gears, let the spring do its job and don't try to second guess where 3rd and 4th is.
-You have a natural "guide" for the 1 - 2 gate. I call it the left side rail. Learn to use it. The same goes for the 5 -6 gate. I call it the right side rail. Learning proper hand positions on the stick will greatly assist in developing a good technique. After you've learned it, you could shift with your elbow if you had to.
-Woodwork (Honda's head tech for S2000 in USA) has expounded upon the "dual phase" shift technique many times in the past. He got flamed pretty badly by people who had no understanding of how to work a 6 speed manual. It was this flaming that lost the forums one of the greatest S2000 resource ever known. He was trying help. He didn't have to.
The "dual phase" shift technique is simply a slight letting up of pressure just before the final entry into the next selected gear. This eliminates the "RAMMING" effect when shifting. What is does is to "introduce" the transmission to the next gear, instead of "WHAM ,BAN, THANK YOU MA'AM" technique. You can pull the stick as hard and as fast as you like OUT of gear, all the way to just before actually getting into the next gear. At the instance, you "let up" (or pause, for those who aren't that proficient at it yet) on the pressure slightly before setting the stick into the next gear.
Woodwork got flamed because people felt they didn't pay this kind of money for a "performance" car, just to have to slow down their shifting. After all, they bought the car to be fast. Well, that was just ignorance talking and that ignorance kept Woodwork away. Once mastered, you can shift this way without even blinking. Typically, most proficient drivers can use this technique and still complete a shift in less than 1/4 of a second. You don't have to "slow down" to do this. But we're not talking about fast shifting in this thread. We're talking about technique and good technique can be incorporated into all aspects of driving.
-When you shift, whether it be upshift or downshift, due consideration must be given to matching revs. That is to say, the engine revs that you end up with should be approx what they need to be once the clutch re-connects the engine with the drive wheels. For an upshift, you need to allow the revs to drop. For a downshift, you need to bring the revs UP by using throttle. This is typically what is referred to as "rev matching". "Matching revs" is applicable to both up and down shifting.
Knowledge has always been power. Practice strengthens that power.

[equinoxiq]

For an upshift, you need to allow the revs to drop.

You also need to make sure that you don't let the revs drop too far. Most people i know who drive a manual transmission will take so long in their upshift that the engine decelerates to idle speed and the clutch has to bring the engine speed back up for the next gear.

I, too, always thought it was weird to read people say our car has the smoothest transmission in the world. Like Repiv said other cars can far more easily give smoother shifts when shifted properly. The car that i had before my S2000 was a Lancer. And i can shift that thing so smoothly that it feels like a CVT. You mean to tell me that the 14k Lancer has a better transmission than an S2000?

i think the most important part, whether it's warm or cold is to match the rpms. It always applies no matter what condition you're driving in and it's just mechanically better for your car

[vernfin]

-Woodwork (Honda's head tech for S2000 in USA) has expounded upon the "dual phase" shift technique many times in the past. He got flamed pretty badly by people who had no understanding of how to work a 6 speed manual. It was this flaming that lost the forums one of the greatest S2000 resource ever known. He was trying help. He didn't have to.
The "dual phase" shift technique is simply a slight letting up of pressure just before the final entry into the next selected gear. This eliminates the "RAMMING" effect when shifting. What is does is to "introduce" the transmission to the next gear, instead of "WHAM ,BAN, THANK YOU MA'AM" technique. You can pull the stick as hard and as fast as you like OUT of gear, all the way to just before actually getting into the next gear. At the instance, you "let up" (or pause, for those who aren't that proficient at it yet) on the pressure slightly before setting the stick into the next gear.
Woodwork got flamed because people felt they didn't pay this kind of money for a "performance" car, just to have to slow down their shifting. After all, they bought the car to be fast. Well, that was just ignorance talking and that ignorance kept Woodwork away. Once mastered, you can shift this way without even blinking. Typically, most proficient drivers can use this technique and still complete a shift in less than 1/4 of a second. You don't have to "slow down" to do this. But we're not talking about fast shifting in this thread. We're talking about technique and good technique can be incorporated into all aspects of driving.
-When you shift, whether it be upshift or downshift, due consideration must be given to matching revs. That is to say, the engine revs that you end up with should be approx what they need to be once the clutch re-connects the engine with the drive wheels. For an upshift, you need to allow the revs to drop. For a downshift, you need to bring the revs UP by using throttle. This is typically what is referred to as "rev matching". "Matching revs" is applicable to both up and down shifting.
Knowledge has always been power. Practice strengthens that power.

Though I never saw Woodwork's posts, I'd certainly say that his technique is where I've ended up on my own...particularly when the car is cold in the morning. I've found that by sort of "gentling" it into the gears (especially the lower ones) that the "crunch" goes away. It's just a matter of paying attention to what you're doing. This car demands that and its when you start thinking about other things that the driving gets rough. Not to say that I'm always up to giving so much attention to this machine that moves me around....at the end of a long day I could sometimes do without it. But that's life with an S2000.

[repiv]

You mean to tell me that the 14k Lancer has a better transmission than an S2000?
I can't impress upon car drivers enough that one should never construe a "smooth shifting", zero tactile feeling transmission with a "better" one. The 2 are completely different concepts. My example of the '71 Datsun exemplifies this statement. The Datsun was so "smooth", you couldn't even feel it go into gear. It was like throwing a lever that was connected to nothing. "Smooth" is not necessarily "better".
The S2000 transmission is geared nearly perfectly for the way the car was meant to perform. It has such short throws that it almost resembles a sequential transmission of a motorcycle or modern day rally car. It doesn't require the operator to wander very far to get to the next gate. These are the PLUSES of this transmission, but by having the characteristics just listed, it may have to make some sacrifices in that it demands more of the driver. This doesn't make it "less better". It only brings home the point of how "less better" the operator really is and how much more improved he/she could be. Many of us will never get that good and as individuals with EGO, we sometimes prefer to say something is not as good because we can't get any better. It may be a matter of human nature and not so much a matter of mechanical engineering.
Sometimes, my car shifts like crap. It's notchy and at times it grinds. It's not the car. I'm just NOT that good. :o

[repiv]

Though I never saw Woodwork's posts
You are in luck. I saved one of his posts dealing with this very topic. This was posted June 29, 2001. Due to the flaming he occasionally got, he only posts every couple of years. A pity!
I am the woodwork and I work for American Honda.
I am writing this to hopefully help S2000 owner/drivers understand the importance of shifting properly to minimize the damage to 2nd gear synchronizer rings. I'm not the Warranty Police but will from time to time quote warranty policy when I read things like "Shifting without the clutch".

My overall objective being in the woodwork is to keep S2000 owners from hurting themselves and hurting their cars. Everytime a transmission or engine gets replaced in an S2000 I get the part. I've seen a lot of damaged transmissions.

Before flaming me please read this and keep an open mind.

You have an engine that revs to 9000 RPM. That means that the transmission mainshaft and clutch disk are also revving to 9000 RPM. When you disengage the clutch (push in the pedal) to shift from first to second the engine and the transmission are disconnected. The engine will slow down from compression when you lift off the throttle. The mainshaft of the transmission is not connected to the engine any more so it is freewheeling in the transmission. Given enough time the mainshaft will slow down but not as fast as the engine. The countershaft is connected to the rear wheels and the speed stays constant during the shift.

When you shift into 2nd gear the synchronizer of the 2nd gear must SLOW DOWN the transmission mainshaft to match the speed that the engine WILL be going when the shift is completed and the clutch is engaged.

The transmission mainshaft and the clutch disk together weigh 19.75 lbs. (not including the pressure plate and flywheel that are connected to the engine) When you shift from 1st to 2nd at 9000 RPM the engine speed drops to 5900. That means that the little brass synchronizer rings have to push on the 2nd gear to slow the mainshaft from 9000RPM to 5900 RPM. It not only has to slow down the mainshaft it has to do it in the time that it takes you to shift. So if you have a tendency to shift fast you may be making the sleeve blow past the synchro rings before it has a chance to do it's job and it will smash into the 2nd gear.

The early '00 cars needed a little change to the sleeve to make the synchros work a little harder. That is what the new parts in the service bulletin are for. Cars after VIN YT006255 already have the new parts. Grinding in a car produced later than 6255 is possible if the synchros have been damaged and now are not able to slow down the mainshaft properly.

Shifting without the clutch, or, shift too quickly and not letting the synchros do their job may permanently damage the gear, sleeve and synchros and make the 2nd gear grind more often.

It makes sense that if shifting at 6000 makes the engine speed drop to 4300 RPM, (1700) into 2nd gear then you should give the 2nd gear synchro twice the time to do the shift from 9000 RPM.

If your car does grind once in a while you may not want the transmission removed, disassembled and a new 2nd gear put in. If it does it quite often, show it to the dealer and have it replaced.

If you hesitate for another 1/2 second while putting constant pressure on the shifter while the 2nd gear synchro does it's job, I'll bet many of your cars would not grind any more. Try it. You might like it.

Added 5-2-03:
Skipping gears:
I have seen many 6th gear sleeves that have been damaged.

The typical story is this: Stop light, 1st gear, engage the clutch, rev to 9,000 RPM, shift quickly to 2nd, rev to 9,000 RPM, same into 3rd, look down and find the car going 80 MPH on a city street and the engine noise is screaming, recognize that any cop is going to write a ticket. Shift to 6th quickly to lower engine noise.

Dragging the mainshaft speed down from 9,000 RPM to 4,000 when going from 3rd to 6th takes time. 6th gear has only a single synchro ring and it doesn't like it. It will grind if you are shifting hard and fast. By shifting hard the synchro ring does not have time to slow down the main-shaft and the sleeve will slip over the synchro and grind the gear. If the sleeve is ground enough in 6th then it will not slide the other way to engage 5th.

So if it is hard to get your car into 5th or 6th it may be because the sleeve is being damaged by skipping gears. Hope this makes sense.


Woodwork
"I'm from the factory and I’m here to help"

PS. Woodwork, at one point, saw every single broken piece from an S2000 in the USA that was a result of warranty work. After he was done with them, he even gave some away as door prizes at S2000 meets.

[desmo4]

The thing about "practice" is that it seems there are many techniques that will work and it would be difficult to sift through the genuine advice from the BS. It would take trial and error (or "practice" as some would call it) to come up with one that works.
My hints would be as follows:
-Make sure your seat is forward enough that you can easily and completely depress the clutch. It would also help to have a properly adjusted clutch pedal so that the proper free play is at both the top end and at the floor. A clutch that is functioning improperly can make for a more difficult time shifting.
-Learn where the "gates" are for each gear. Know why the centering spring exists. It's there to hold the stick dead center in the 3 - 4 gate. When selecting those gears, let the spring do its job and don't try to second guess where 3rd and 4th is.
-You have a natural "guide" for the 1 - 2 gate. I call it the left side rail. Learn to use it. The same goes for the 5 -6 gate. I call it the right side rail. Learning proper hand positions on the stick will greatly assist in developing a good technique. After you've learned it, you could shift with your elbow if you had to.
-Woodwork (Honda's head tech for S2000 in USA) has expounded upon the "dual phase" shift technique many times in the past. He got flamed pretty badly by people who had no understanding of how to work a 6 speed manual. It was this flaming that lost the forums one of the greatest S2000 resource ever known. He was trying help. He didn't have to.
The "dual phase" shift technique is simply a slight letting up of pressure just before the final entry into the next selected gear. This eliminates the "RAMMING" effect when shifting. What is does is to "introduce" the transmission to the next gear, instead of "WHAM ,BAN, THANK YOU MA'AM" technique. You can pull the stick as hard and as fast as you like OUT of gear, all the way to just before actually getting into the next gear. At the instance, you "let up" (or pause, for those who aren't that proficient at it yet) on the pressure slightly before setting the stick into the next gear.
Woodwork got flamed because people felt they didn't pay this kind of money for a "performance" car, just to have to slow down their shifting. After all, they bought the car to be fast. Well, that was just ignorance talking and that ignorance kept Woodwork away. Once mastered, you can shift this way without even blinking. Typically, most proficient drivers can use this technique and still complete a shift in less than 1/4 of a second. You don't have to "slow down" to do this. But we're not talking about fast shifting in this thread. We're talking about technique and good technique can be incorporated into all aspects of driving.
-When you shift, whether it be upshift or downshift, due consideration must be given to matching revs. That is to say, the engine revs that you end up with should be approx what they need to be once the clutch re-connects the engine with the drive wheels. For an upshift, you need to allow the revs to drop. For a downshift, you need to bring the revs UP by using throttle. This is typically what is referred to as "rev matching". "Matching revs" is applicable to both up and down shifting.
Knowledge has always been power. Practice strengthens that power.



I have been rev matching my S since I bought it 8 years ago. It has slightly over 98000 miles and never had any transmission issues.

Jonathan

[physicns]

I can't impress upon car drivers enough that one should never construe a "smooth shifting", zero tactile feeling transmission with a "better" one.

Completely agreed--with the S2k, you know exactly where the shift system is--it's a very mechanical feel, and you feel connected to the car. Having driven a friend's Porsche 996 Turbo, I have to say I was horrified at how rubbery and unsatisfying the shifting was.

I'm starting to understand the two-phase shift. And it makes sense; you provide a a controlled quick (but not forceful) motion to initiate a gear change, and you follow through with momentum, not force. Very similar to playing a strong but singing note on a piano key, for those musically inclined. If you force a key down to the stop, you'll get a loud but harsh and unsatisfying tone.

I'd like to say I don't understand people who force their shifts, but at one point I've been guilty of that as well :( . Well, so you learn :).

[equinoxiq]

Wow!! What a great informative post. How can someone who is obviously so knowledgeable but can still explain it all out for you while making it so easy to understand get flamed to the point that he no longer wants to contribute to the community? That is utterly ridiculous.....

[takeshi]

i fully agree with repiv on this topic. i have a my 05 s2k. i too felt that the tranny was not working properly after i purchased the car. rough 1/2 shift that was much worse when cold and notchy feel on the 2/3 shift. the car had 155 miles when i bought it. now at 9000. i have manual shifting cars and trucks(18 wheelers) my entire adult life. after trying some of the suggestions from other owners the smoothness of the shifts improved a lot. in my car i found that the 1/2 shift liked a certain rpm range when cold. to low or high and it would shift roughly. also the timing of your shift makes a big difference. i still get a rough 1/2 shift once in a while that goes away after a few miles. nothing wrong with my car. i just had to get to know it better. good luck.
This is good to hear. I'll occasionally have problems in the mornings with the 2/3 shift. I had suspected that it had been driver error/laziness/sloppiness/sleepiness combined with the cold tranny but I'm pretty certain that's the case now. The tranny definitely feels great when it has had a chance to warm up (and I've had a a chance to wake up) -- not that it ever really gets cold down here.

Woodwork got flamed because people felt they didn't pay this kind of money for a "performance" car, just to have to slow down their shifting. After all, they bought the car to be fast.
That sort of thinking is pretty common all over the place. I'm frequently on several Blackberry forum sites and it's amazing just how often you see the exact same complaint there, i.e. "I paid XXX for this and it should work the way I expect it to and I shouldn't have to bother to actually learn how to use it". I think what people forget with any performance machine is that performance is a double-edged sword. Along with the potential for very good performance is the potential for very poor performance based on the person's skill and experience. For those not willing to put forth the time, effort and, yes, frustration there are plenty of automatics out there. ;)

The same applies to espresso machines (to drag in another hobby of mine). You can make exceptionally good espresso on a high end machine. You can also make exceptionally bad espresso with the same machine. If you don't want to bother with the learning curve there are fully automatic machines out there which will produce consistent but mediocre results. These examples can go on and on and on...

Wow!! What a great informative post. How can someone who is obviously so knowledgeable but can still explain it all out for you while making it so easy to understand get flamed to the point that he no longer wants to contribute to the community? That is utterly ridiculous.....
I suspect it's the deadly sin of pride on the part of the flamers. It is apparently difficult for some to accept that the problem might be them and not the machine.

[Nippon]

woodwork is a pimp. Look at all the knowledge. Viper's a pimp too. Lets not flame Viper mkay?

I have a question along the same lines.

Sometimes in the morning when I do shift, of course, this thread shedding an immense light on the issue with rough shifting while cold but. I've noticed that sometimes (my own error) I shift too softly and I don't put the transmission fully into the next gear, it pops out.

I know thats because of my not fully engaging the gear, but I panic at times because its usually from a stop at a light and I try to put it quickly back into gear but I get that vicious grinding so I have to wait for the RPM to drop before I can put it back into gear.

I dont think its broken at all, I just know its a side effect of the transmission popping out of gear when not fully engaged. My question is, why does it grind like that? Its as if the synchro, at that point, isn't working at all.

[repiv]

Sometimes in the morning when I do shift, of course, this thread shedding an immense light on the issue with rough shifting while cold but. I've noticed that sometimes (my own error) I shift too softly and I don't put the transmission fully into the next gear, it pops out.

I know thats because of my not fully engaging the gear, but I panic at times because its usually from a stop at a light and I try to put it quickly back into gear but I get that vicious grinding so I have to wait for the RPM to drop before I can put it back into gear.

I dont think its broken at all, I just know its a side effect of the transmission popping out of gear when not fully engaged. My question is, why does it grind like that? Its as if the synchro, at that point, isn't working at all.

Think of gear engagement like the round pegs and round holes of 2 pieces of Lego. Think about a "driving" gear as being a peg ring of Legos mating into a "driven" gear being a hole ring of Legos. Usually one is spinning at a different speed than the other. When you move the stick into say, 1st gear, you are pushing a bunch of round pegs into a corresponding bunch of round holes. If you don't quite "seat" the pegs into the holes, the resultant force that runs along the drive line will tend to push the one Lego block away from the other Lego block. As the pegs pull out of the holes, the difference in speed (and force) of one compared to the other, makes the ends of the pegs scrape across the surface of all those holes when they are not quite in and not quite out. That's just one source of the noise.
Remember my pictures of the syncro rings, with those little pointy teeth. When you are "in" gear, one set of teeth are slid inside the other set of teeth on the corresponding ring. That's when the pegs and holes (in my last paragraph) are perfectly aligned. As the tranny comes "out" of gear, the little pointy bits of one ring drag across the little points of the other ring. There's your other source of the "file across the saw" grinding sound. Part of the sound you hear is those little points being gradually ground flat.
Now, someone will ask why the gears don't just stay where they are even if they aren't fully "seated"? Think about another toy .......................... Know those silver balls hanging in a series of about 5 or 6 balls, all suspended by 2 strings in the "V" shape? When you lift up an end one, and slam it down onto the others, the inertia is transferred through the middle balls and only the one on the opposite end will get bounced off. Do 2 balls and 2 balls on the other end goes, etc. This same principle work in a manual transmission due to the angle at which many of the cogs and gears are cut. Depending upon which direction the angle is facing, determines which direction force and inertia will travel. The final result is that the forces act to push gears apart or keep them together. When the tranny is "in" gear, pegs and holes are kept pressed together by "detents" that are built into the transmission. Some gear's detents need to be stronger (or more well defined) than other detents.
Did you know that the early series of AP2 trannies were prone to 2nd gear "pop out" even if it's fully "seated"? There's a TSB and Honda has to go in and change a few parts to rectify this. Those same trannies also necessitated that 1st gear be fully seated. However, any gear that is put in "half ass", is prone to pop out, but because of the mechanical advantage in the lower gears, they are more prone than higher gears.

Oops, here are those pictures of the little points on the sycro rings. I had them in another thread:
http://forums.s2kca.com/photopost/data/15353/medium/5th_side_pointy.JPG

http://forums.s2kca.com/photopost/data/15353/medium/6th_side_damage.JPG

Those little points are supposed to be there in a healthy syncro. When you grind a lot, they lose their points.

[takeshi]

-Woodwork (Honda's head tech for S2000 in USA) has expounded upon the "dual phase" shift technique many times in the past.
Thanks for sharing this -- it really seems to have helped.

I'm currently trying to re-train myself to downshift through the gears (against the grain of years of driving stick without having done this) based on another post of yours in another thread somewhere...

[chuhsi]

this was one of the most interest threads (thanks woodwork) that I've read over the past 2 years of reading s2000 threads.

[CwestS2K]

Notchy feeling when shifting into 3rd in my 04' any idea what it could be??

[repiv]

Notchy feeling when shifting into 3rd in my 04' any idea what it could be??
I would suggest you read ALL of this thread. Then, if you don't see or can't deduce the answer, ask the question again, but with DETAIL - much, much more detail! The question you ask, as phrased, doesn't even warrant a guess, let alone an attempt at an answer.

[drobbins]

This is a fantastic thread - thanks for Repiv for the detailed answers as well as those who asked the questions :) I was having a similar concern/issue with my '05 for the first few 1->2, 1->2, 1-2 shifts to get out on the main streets but will try the dual-phase approach as well as playing with timing and see if that helps.

[gander2112]

Great thread, and great explanations.

I just bought my 2005 slightly used, and love the shifting.

My last manual transmission car was a 2000 VW Jetta VR6. This transmission is SOOOOOO much better than that one, that I don't see how anyone could complain even a little.

Still learning about my new ride, and enjoying the trip to work each day.

Now if someone can explain to me how to not evaporate the tires so fast, I would be perfectly happy.

Geoff

[desmo4]

I run Redline 10w30 in the transmission and the engine. It has been in the low 20's for the last week in the morning. And with my 100000 mile AP1 is still as smooth as the day I bought it.

Jonathan

[drobbins]

I did try some more gentle shifting techniques which didn't help with the initial 1->2 1->2 1->2 shifts on cold days. I think that the initial icky "crunch" for those first few shifts on cold days is helped by being more forceful initially with getting the gear into 2nd as the transmission is stiffer when cold. And also possibly by trying to do a quick shift rather than a slower shift.

Once everything warms up, then everything seems to work fine and feel OK - even great - and I can have some more finesse with the shifter.

[repiv]

There is an old phrase that "gear jammers" used to use, but most folks have either forgotten it or have never heard of it.
If you shift too fast at a time when the tranny isn't ready for it, you can "BEAT THE SYNCROS".
Forcing the shift by doing it fast or doing it hard will beat the syncros. What happens is that you ram it so fast into gear that the syncros don't actually have time to syncronize the difference in rotational speeds of the two cogs. This can do a little damage to the syncros each time it's done. I believe it still "crunches" but you do it so fast, that you just don't feel it as much. You are really making them work hard. If you do it a bit slower using the dual phase technique, you may feel it more but the forces at work are much reduced, hence, less long term damage.
I'm also of the belief that even our syncros are pretty tough and they can take an awful lot of abuse before they need to be repaired. This whole business of "notchy" or "crunchy" shifts is generally blown out of proportion and people tend to be far too anal about it. Shift in whatever way makes you feel good about it. Unless you hear the sound of a saw blade being run across a stainless steel counter top, you really shouldn't worry too much about it. People tend to not really understand what it means when they hear "This tranny shifts like butter". This DOESN'T mean you should feel absolutely nothing. That's not the sign of a precise transmission, which the S2000 has. A tranny with no feel is a sign of a mushy, imprecise piece of equipment. There's nothing wrong with having a clear and distinct tactile feel, especially when the tranny is cold. "Notchiness" is not a defect nor is it something to be labelled as "bad". Even a "crunch" that is short of a grind, is of little concern. Enjoy the car and don't get so hung up on definitions and descriptions made by others. They may be even more anal or inexperienced than you. Don't let their "automatic transmission" mind mislead you into incorrect beliefs.

[drobbins]

OK, points taken, but on cold days, the first three 1->2 shifts produce a pretty bad crunch. I have no complaints about notchiness once the car has been moving for a few minutes.

I don't know what a saw blade would sound like on a stainless steel counter top, but it is clearly audible and doesn't sound good at all. It is not high pitched but sounds like something bad is happening.

I am guessing the crunch is due to the edges of the gears grinding due to me not using quite enough effort as I should. Maybe I'll try forceful and slow and see how that goes :) Will need to wait until it cools down again, though - it's been pretty warm here the past week.

[repiv]

Cold merely accentuates the need for more precise matching of revs when shifting. I think I made an attempt to explain the grinding noise earlier in this thread. A "crunch" is just the precursor to a full out grind. The tranny fluid aids in the different gear speeds to mesh more quietly. Cold fluid = less assistance in this = more finesse required when shifting.

The "edges" of the gears are always meshed and never stop being meshed. It's the syncros and the dog teeth that make the noise. And these are like pushing two Leggos together.

PS. When was the last time you had your clutch fluid changed? Old or contaminated clutch fluid make shifting a much more sloppy affair. Also, try moving your seat one or two notches forward so that you can be certain that the clutch pedal goes right to the floor during the shift. A clutch that is not fully disengaged at the precise moment of entering into the next gear will also make it a sloppy business.

[Roma Fresco]

i have something like this going on as well, but it's always cold in Washington... and it happens only when my rpms are low. so i've just been rev matching to third and i havent felt it yet....

[physicns]

A friend and fellow S2k owner mentioned shifting at 2750 rpms makes the 1->2 shift a lot smoother, and I have to agree. It makes crossing intersections a little annoying, but you only need to keep it up until the car warms up. Otherwise double-declutching on the upshift will also help.

I used to have the same problems with the crunch/grind, but I realize that it's correctable with technique. Respect the car and it'll respect you too :)

[Roma Fresco]

good point, if a clutch and accel. more smoothly i never have and issues, it's usually when im too excited with the motions.

[physicns]

^

I went through the same thing. After watching some youtube track videos I thought the proper technique was slamming the gears back and forth. Thinking about how I treated my poor little car still makes me wince. When you think a little more about how a manual transmission works it makes more sense. If you read through this thread, you'll find many detailed postings and interesting insights into shifting, but a quick overview of how a manual transmission connects power from the engine to the driveshaft:

Engine crankshaft :: clutch :: transmission :: driveshaft

I didn't know this until some time after I started driving, but there are two separate locations where you disconnect the engine from the driveshaft: the clutch, and the transmission. Being in neutral is NOT the same as having the clutch pushed in. When you're in gear with the clutch pushed in, the transmission is still spinning with the driveshaft, at a speed corresponding with the ratio of the gear you're in. Assuming your car is maintaining a constant speed, when you push the clutch in and change gears, the speed of the transmission must change in order to match the new gear ratio. You see this via a drop in RPMs in an upshift (or vice versa in a downshift), but the only amount of time a transmission has to change its RPMs is the time when you're in between gears.

What does this mean? It means if you want to be nice to your transmission, slow down your upshifts a bit! That brief moment you're in between gears as you move from one to the next is the ONLY time the transmission has to change speeds. Your car has synchronizer cones that rub to match speeds (little clutches, if you will... more details in above posts), but you need to give them time to rub and do their work as well. Don't shift it like a purpose-built track car; those have lighter flywheels (so the transmission changes rotational speeds faster), and many transmissions either have dog boxes (no synchros) or aren't expected to survive more than a couple races.

Another friend of mine gave me another bit of advice that helped as well: don't make the car do anything it doesn't want to do.

[repiv]

I'll bet most of you guys have no idea what a manual transmission shifts like when it's -40 degrees in the morning and the car has been parked outside all night. The cold forces you to shift slow simply because the stick can't move any faster. It makes you hold the clutch down longer. It makes you stay off the gas much longer. It almost seems like the car is telling me how to shift for those conditions. It "helps" me coordinate my clutch/throttle/shift technique. My -40 degree 1-2 shift if far smoother than my 0 degree F 1-2 shift. It takes more finesse to NOT beat the syncros and to sync up my 2 feet and right hand. After a cold start in those temps, the tranny fluid contributes only a little bit in the act of shifting. Once it warms up a bit, the fluid helps to camouflage ham-handed shifting.

[hal1633]

What does woodwork mean by the following statement:
"If you hesitate for another 1/2 second while putting constant pressure on the shifter while the 2nd gear synchro does it's job, I'll bet many of your cars would not grind any more."

[mlc]

What does woodwork mean by the following statement:
"If you hesitate for another 1/2 second while putting constant pressure on the shifter while the 2nd gear synchro does it's job, I'll bet many of your cars would not grind any more."

I think what he is saying is the first to second gear shift, especially in the upper RPM range, is very hard on the second gear syncro. It works best if you just slow down your shift a little and give the syncro a chance to do its job then you won't grind going into second. Basically just slow down a little on the first to second gear shift.

I am sure others will jump in with a better explaination.

Kevin

[hal1633]

I noticed a couple of times I was actually shifting as I was pressing in the clutch pedal and letting off the accelerator. I didn't realize that I was doing this until I paid attention to my shifting. Should I have the clutch pedal fully pressed in before shifting?

[mlc]

How long have you had the car? It does take some getting used to this car even if you have driven stick before. The biggest thing to remember is to be "smoooth" with your inputs. The car really doesn't like an abrupt actions, either with the gas and clutch or the steering. Think of the old saying "slow down to speed up".

To answer your question as a rule, yes the clutch should be engaged before you shift to the next gear.

Just remember be smoooth.

Kevin

[hal1633]

I purchased the car in Nov 09 and have only driven it a few times.

[mlc]

I purchased the car in Nov 09 and have only driven it a few times.

What year is the car?

Kevin

[hal1633]

MY 2006 Formula Red.

[mlc]

Thats good. The issue that most are speaking about is mostly in the AP1 tranny's. They upgraded the syncros I think in 03' or 04'.

Are you having more fun then should be allowed by law :martini2: . Don't worry to much just take your time and get used to the car. The more you drive it the more comfortable you will get.

Kevin

[hal1633]

Actually its a MY 04 and I am having fun so far.

[repiv]

What does woodwork mean by the following statement:
"If you hesitate for another 1/2 second while putting constant pressure on the shifter while the 2nd gear synchro does it's job, I'll bet many of your cars would not grind any more."
I met woodwork many years ago when we were both invited speakers at Fall Colors. He and I discussed this topic a fair bit on that thread and in emails. He even sent me pictures of syncros he had returned to his desk. They were damaged from people "skip shifting" and generally shifting poorly.
I think when he said to hesitate for 1/2 second, he was exaggerating a bit to get the point across. I prefer to call a "dual-phase" shift. Some people operate a manual shifter like it was an "ON/OFF" lever. This may work on an imprecise, long gated shift mechanism, but it doesn't work well with a close gated, short throw shifter like we have on an S2000. Shifting becomes a bit more complicated that just "throwing a switch" from one position to another. You can't simply "ram" the shifter into the next gear in one single motion. What you need to do is to move the stick (as quickly or as slowly as you wish) to a point just before fully engaging the next gear. Then you ease up just a small instance as the driveline is "introduced" to the next gear. This doesn't take long nor does it take much lessening of force. Then you continue the motion to fully slot into the next gear. Most proficient manual drivers of S2000s can do a "proper" shift using this "dual phase" technique in very little time (0.25 to 0.5 second). So you see, 1/2 second hesitation is quite an exaggeration.
I noticed a couple of times I was actually shifting as I was pressing in the clutch pedal and letting off the accelerator. I didn't realize that I was doing this until I paid attention to my shifting. Should I have the clutch pedal fully pressed in before shifting?
It's OK to pull the tranny OUT of gear without the clutch being fully disengaged. This is easy and causes no harm so long as you are de-throttling. The key is to have the clutch fully disengaged as the tranny completely slots into the next gear. A partially disengaged clutch continues to feed power into the tranny (on top of the inertia it already has) and hence, gear changing becomes an exercise in really working the syncros hard. Eventually the teeth of the syncros get rounded off and you are more likely to grind your shifts. It all starts with a notchy feeling and progresses to a bit of a crunch, then to a full fledge grind where you will be forced to slow down the shift in order to do it smoothly.

I'll repost those pics again for your convenience.
Here are the pictures of syncros that woodwork sent me many years ago.

Here is what a good syncro ring looks like. Note the nice, crisp arrowhead like points .........
http://inlinethumb49.webshots.com/21360/2375806480025981935S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2375806480025981935aDGfgr)


The following are damaged syncros. Note how the pointy bits are ground off. With these, you'll grind like crazy and have very rough shifts ....................
http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/25417/2456934940025981935S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2456934940025981935suMzDq)

http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/2404/2726203950025981935S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2726203950025981935PkEVRM)

[SpitfireS]

If I may I would like to add this:
On cars that have had the clutch replaced (worn clutch or aftermarket "upgrade") the rough shifting could be because of a "bad" install.
I say "bad" because all parts probably are installed correctly but may not all have been greased where they absolutely need to be.

For starters: trans input shaft spline.
I'll bet you most dealers / mechanics just remove the trans, remove the pressure plate, change out the disk, put it all back together and they are done.
The splines of the trans input need to be cleaned, any build-up of clutch disk dust needs to be removed and lightly greased with (urea) high temp grease.
The same goes for the splines in the brand new clean (OEM) disk.
This will take what... 1 minute?
IF you know what you are doing and you have the tools & grease ready for a proper clutch job.
If you don't the disk might not be able to "float around" a bit when the PP is not clamping it against the FW, causing "grinds" during shifting.
A sticky disk will continue to input force into the trans.

Second: throwout bearing.
Most owners would also replace the throwout bearing during a clutch job.
("While you're in there")
There is a groove in the throwout that needs to be filled with grease.
That way the TO will slide better on its sleeve.
Agreed, that will have less or nothing to do with the shifing itself but has an influence on clutch pedal force and may change hand / feet timing.

Third: bleed the slave properly.
Bleed that slave off the trans pointing upwards, with the piston all the way in so all air will be pushed out and you will have the max (designed) stroke.
Here too the pedal feel & hand / feet timing may be off because of the PP not disengaging fast enough.

Fourth: grease the slave push rod and clutch fork cup.
If they have a lot of wear marks from being bone dry for a while you may need to polish them both a bit.
Again: this will make the pedal feel so much better.

Other than that I could not agree more with what was allready mentioned.
You will get a smooth shift as long as the synchro's are given the time they need to do what they are supposed to do.
Note: (IMO) the higher the revs the less time they need.
Driving around town, shifting at 3k rpm, you will need to give them way more time than when shifting at redline.

:twocents:

[repiv]

Note: (IMO) the higher the revs the less time they need.
Driving around town, shifting at 3k rpm, you will need to give them way more time than when shifting at redline.

:twocents:
I agree with this totally and should have mentioned this in my post.

[drobbins]

My cold shifting technique for 1->2->3 for the first 5 minutes is as follows:

Depress clutch pedal, put transmission into neutral as normal
*Wait* about a second or two with the clutch pedal depressed and the car in neutral before doing anything, hand on the shifter
*Then* casually move shifter into new position, with a normal but slightly gentler/slower than normal motion.

If these three steps are followed, I don't get grinding. My semi-technical explanation is that the synchros take longer to "get ready" to do their job when the transmission is cold.

[MoS2000]

Interesting that I've never had any trouble (even cold shifting) from 1 to 2. When cold, I do feel a slight bit of resistance going from 2 to 3 (from the neutral position up to 3). It goes away very quickly, within 5 mins of driving. Like everyone says in this post, my normal method of shifting includes a slight hesitation in the neutral position.
I have noticed a lot of powertrain noise when driving in 2nd and 3rd, especially in downshifting into 3rd.