The great supercharger debate [Archive] - S2000 Club of America Forums

Abe Froman

01-20-2007, 04:53 PM

Coop

01-20-2007, 05:12 PM

might want to read this http://www.s2kca.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12264

gomarlins3

01-20-2007, 06:06 PM

I was looking for feedback from Dave and anyone else on which supercharger to go with Comptech or Vortech

Please discuss pros and cons of both systems and the need for a piggyback system like AEM.http://www.aempower.com/ViewProduct.aspx?ProductID=681

Also has anyone used the Snow Performance injection kit to help eleminate detonation with the supercharger ? http://www.snowperformance.net/products.php?p_cat=99

Thanks

I don't have either of those and don't see the need to. No problems with mine when I had the stock cat and exhaust. The SC is designed to run with those on. With the TP and Comptech exhaust I have now, I was a little lean so we adjusted the FPR and I added a VAFC II to compensate. With a little tuning, there is no more lean problem.

Satisaii

01-20-2007, 06:46 PM

I have tracked a stock Vortech kit in 100+ degree temps on CA 91 gas. I had no problems with audible knock.

The only problem with the kit is that the tube connecting the air filter to the S/C kept falling off during the track sessions.

Abe Froman

01-20-2007, 08:53 PM

Thanks for the link Coop :thumbsup:

Satisaii;Have you considered running a K&N directly to the front of the blower housing? I have been a few others try that.

Chris S

01-20-2007, 08:56 PM

As a former Vortech owner, I'd highly recommend Comptech if you're going to go F/I.

repiv

01-21-2007, 12:47 AM

The answer depends upon the nuances with which you ask the question. Are you going to be satisfied with whatever power comes from an otherwise stock kit or are you going to use it as a starting point to infuse more power as time goes by?
If you are sticking with stock power, being a current Vortech owner, I would recommend VT for the price advantage and a bit better power improvement. I would recommend CT for its simpler execution and much better customer service.
If stock kit power is all you need or will ever want, the AEM ECU is not necessary nor is the alcohol injection kit. Those will only add to the complexity of the set up. If you're looking for more power than what the stock kit will deliver, then AEM becomes a necessity and alcohol injection becomes but only one more tool which you may wish to consider.
Quite frankly, cost aside, you can't go wrong with either kit. Which one you end up with will be determined by how you interpret what you read by users of each.

Abe Froman

01-21-2007, 01:27 AM

repiv

01-21-2007, 01:40 AM

:think:

With HTG just a stones' throw away in Cleveland and his rep for excellent CS I'm inclined to lean towards the Comptech
I agree. If you're that close to HTG, that would be the way to go. One more thing I forgot to mention, if your car is still under warranty, installing a Comptech by an authorized dealer will maintain some sort of warranty for you. If that is important, then the extra price is well worth it. With Vortech, the second it goes onto your car, your powertrain warranty is gonzo.

Chris S

01-21-2007, 03:29 AM

I know many have have good results w/ VT, as I did for a while, but when things went bad, they really hung me out to drive w/ the worst customer service I've ever experienced. I'd say I did go wrong w/ this kit, b/c at the end it cost me a tremendous amout of time, money, and frustration, only to end up happier being back to a stock troublefree car.

The electronics were the weak link. AEM is a great idea, but if you're going to pay up for one and the tuning, you're better off just going w/ a turbo kit IMO, which will produce a lot more power at lower rpms. S/C is good for the "plug and play" crowd, but if you want to tweak and tune, turbos have so much more potential.

I would recommend CT for its simpler execution and much better customer service.
If stock kit power is all you need or will ever want, the AEM ECU is not necessary nor is the alcohol injection kit. Those will only add to the complexity of the set up. If you're looking for more power than what the stock kit will deliver, then AEM becomes a necessity and alcohol injection becomes but only one more tool which you may wish to consider.
Quite frankly, cost aside, you can't go wrong with either kit. Which one you end up with will be determined by how you interpret what you read by users of each.

raymo19

01-21-2007, 02:24 PM

:think:

With HTG just a stones' throw away in Cleveland and his rep for excellent CS I'm inclined to lean towards the Comptech; however I'm interested in the upgrade ability of the Vortech.

Thanks for your thoughts

Both kits are upgradable. The Vortech has more potential. Do keep in mind that as you increase boost you will eventually have to upgrade other pieces as well (injectors, exhaust, etc.)

I got the AEM with the Comptech SC/AC for the increased flexibiltiy for tuning it provides and in case I decide to do more later. You will have to shell out more cash for a good tuner and tune. In my case the jury's still out as to whether I've found the right guy or not.

I agree that as close as you are HardTop Guy is your best bet. :thumbsup:

Abe Froman

01-21-2007, 04:12 PM

I agree that as close as you are HardTop Guy is your best bet. :thumbsup:

I agree Jeff is a great guy and I've seen some of his s/c installs, very top shelf;I've got a pretty good handle on what also needs to be upgraded along with the s/c (clutch for one)

Thanks again for all your comments

repiv

01-21-2007, 05:02 PM

I agree Jeff is a great guy and I've seen some of his s/c installs, very top shelf;I've got a pretty good handle on what also needs to be upgraded along with the s/c (clutch for one)

Thanks again for all your comments
I didn't see if you stated the year of your car, but if your clutch is working fine now, you might want to save that expense till you really need one. I've had my supercharger on my MY2000 car for the past 4 years or so ( and some 45K KMs) and I'm still on the original stock clutch. Only on hot days, does it start to display some slippage. It all depends on how you drive, too. Only this year, am I going to install a new cluch kit (from HTG).
Don't be misled by some who tell you that you MUST upgrade your clutch and that you should do it before you put the supercharger on. No, you don't have to remove the supercharger to do a clutch job as some would have you believe. The engine can still be lowered (angled down at the rear) with the blower mounted, enought to get those 3 upper tranny bolts out. That's the only reason why the engine must be lowered.

blownS

01-21-2007, 05:18 PM

Abe Froman

01-25-2007, 12:35 PM

and I'm still on the original stock clutch. Only on hot days, does it start to display some slippage. It all depends on how you drive, too. Only this year, am I going to install a new cluch kit (from HTG).

:yikes: I'm impressed;there is another guy from Ohio who is supercharged and on his original clutch too.

I guess I need to learn how to drive ;)

BTW mines an MY03

fltsfshr

01-25-2007, 11:00 PM

I've had my Vortech in for service on warranty. It was great turn around and back to me in a week and aprt of a 3 year warranty.

The secret if you buy a Vortech is FILL OUT THE PAPERWORK. I had no problems with their service at all.

Vortech at the time I bought offered a 3 year warranty which they've backed up. Comptech I think was only one year but they didn't have an intercooler at the time. Vortech makes more hp from what I've seen on the dyno as it makes more boost.

Once you change your pulley with either kit to a smaller one, I believe you void their warranty. So if you send it in for svc...take off the smaller pulley.

I think the secret is having whichever one you chose intalled properly.

That's my 2 cents worth

fltsfshr

Chris S

01-26-2007, 04:32 AM

W/ my Vortech, it was 3 years on the blower only; all the other parts (incl. the one that repeatedly failed) was only 1 year.

fltsfshr

01-26-2007, 12:19 PM

Chris What kept failing on your Vortech? The FMU?

fltsfshr

Chris S

01-26-2007, 01:33 PM

It was "the black box"...since I'm not technical, I'm not sure if that means the FMU or the piggyback ECU (if they're not one and the same). It was made by Split Second, if that helps.

fltsfshr

01-26-2007, 03:44 PM

Ahh I didn't have any problems with mine. I went aem shortly afterward I have both a "black box" and an fmu if you need them.

fltsfshr

Chris S

01-26-2007, 04:12 PM

Thanks, but I sold my kit minus the black box for a huge loss! The buyer found another Vortech black box and blew his engine (not necessarily blaming anything in particular, it could be his driving for all I know). He's now getting the block built up to handle serious power, has an AEM EMS, and is planning on really cranking up the boost. I just hope he doesn't overdo it!

repiv

01-26-2007, 04:19 PM

Yeah, the first gen of Split Second black boxes were somewhat problematic, combined with the fact that quite a few owners got confused by the written wiring instructions given by Vortech. The "real" instructions are in the wiring diagram and the written instructions should have been ignored.
I have one of the first of the 2nd gen black boxes and my supercharger has performed flawlessly for many years. My biggest beef with Vortech was that I wanted to buy some more parts to do other things. My emails were never responded to. Luckily, I've never needed them for warranty.

Jerome

01-26-2007, 04:58 PM

Abe, I have the Comptech s/c & a/c on my '02 S2000. Repiv has said that the Vortech is a little quieter than the Comptech. I can tell you that my Comptech has low level "gear lash" noise at certain RPMs when coasting or at a few steady speeds on level roads (example: 55-58 mph 5th or 6th gear). It sounds a bit like a washer spinning on a loose bolt. Comptech says this "gear lash" noise is normal for their s/c. The noise cannot be heard at 60 mph in 6th speed. It is not a medium or loud noise and is worth the extra 100 hp! Under acceleration (light to max) the "gear lash" noise is absent. I have the stock exhaust system on my S. The Comptech s/c & a/c install does not destroy anything, so the car can be returned to original equipment standards. As I understand it, the Vortech kit requires a "modification" to the engine's oil pan.

Jerome
Arkansas

repiv

01-26-2007, 05:54 PM

As I understand it, the Vortech kit requires a "modification" to the engine's oil pan.
You have to tap a hole in the oilpan for the oil return line. The Comptech gives you an adaptor and uses the drain plug for its return line.

Abe Froman

01-27-2007, 07:41 PM

I wonder if a sandwich adapter mounted in the oil filter area might be a better solution to tapping the pan?

http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/ProductImages/oiltempadapter.jpg

repiv

01-27-2007, 08:25 PM

I wonder if a sandwich adapter mounted in the oil filter area might be a better solution to tapping the pan?
That would not be a wise thing to do. That sandwich adaptor will be under potentially very high oil pressure. That's why it's a good place to put a line for an oil pressure guage. You don't want any pressurized "outlet" for an oil RETURN line.

Abe Froman

01-29-2007, 08:53 PM

:think: Hmmm that makes sense

Sideways

02-09-2007, 12:32 PM

I installed my own Vortech when Dave did his, went with the AEM EMS and have been running more than 450 rwhp for 2 years now. The Comptech can not reach that.

It is truely a kick to out perform C6 Z06s and Vipers. :thumbsup:

I tapped (and polished) the oil pan, had a mechanic change the crank pulley, and installed the fuel pump prior to installation of the supercharger. The install went very smoothly.

Sarek

02-10-2007, 08:32 AM

Keep in mind that if u never had the early AP1 clutch buzz resolved by the dealer, you could probably get them to swap out your OEM clutch and replace with, say, an ACT for free. All u would pay for is parts...
would you still have to be under warranty for this clutch buzz fix? I have an 02 with 95k on it, including the buzzzzzzzz

hecash

02-10-2007, 10:12 AM

It was "the black box"...since I'm not technical, I'm not sure if that means the FMU or the piggyback ECU (if they're not one and the same). It was made by Split Second, if that helps.

The Split Second box is known as a "voltage clamp." It's wired into the MAP sensor circuit to establish a fixed maximum voltage during periods of boost transition, like into and out of VTEC, to ensure that the ECU does not undesirably go into "safe" mode.

Left on it's own when transitioning under boost, the MAP sensor signal to the ECU causes the ECU to interpret these transitions as an undesirable event.

It's an adequate solution to the MAP management issue but not exactly the best.

Abe Froman

02-10-2007, 02:36 PM

I tapped (and polished) the oil pan, had a mechanic change the crank pulley, and installed the fuel pump prior to installation of the supercharger. The install went very smoothly.

Why the need for the fuel pump ? insurance ?

raymo19

02-10-2007, 02:57 PM

would you still have to be under warranty for this clutch buzz fix? I have an 02 with 95k on it, including the buzzzzzzzz

Probably. Unless you have a very good relationship with a dealer. They may be willing to offer some sort of "good will" and perhaps pick up the parts cost and/or part of the labor.

Sideways

02-10-2007, 11:05 PM

Why the need for the fuel pump ? insurance ?
The supercharger kits come with a high output Walbro 255 pump (model 342)
with more output than the factory pump. Even with the hp 255 pump the kits tend to run lean and the factory pump would exagerate that tendency.

raymo19

02-10-2007, 11:22 PM

The supercharger kits come with a high output Walbro 255 pump (model 342)
with more output than the factory pump. Even with the hp 255 pump the kits tend to run lean and the factory pump would exagerate that tendency.

Dare I ask your current fuel solution? :D